7 hours ago, efis007 said:

It won't be for you, but for the encyclopedias of the world (that you refuse to read) xplane IS a video game, as is FS2024, P3D, FS9, and every other "aircraft simulator video game" I've flown for decades. 🛩️
Relax, you won't change the encyclopedias using your false "fan" beliefs, take a deep breath of relief, the world moves on and thank it for giving you the chance to continue playing with this sim.

And what does the definition of "simulatio/simulator" in that encyclopedy say? Have you checked it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation

28 minutes ago, jcomm said:

I use them to feel like being an airline pilot, a stunt pilot, an helicopter pilot, anything I wanted to be IRL but didn't fight enough for

This is literally pretty much the definition of what a simulator is made for. Simulating a real system/machine on a virtual machine. I haven't seen a definition saying that a simulator is only considered a sim if it is being used by a real licenced pilot. So I struggle to understand the exact difference beetween an airliner pilot using a sim and you in the handling of it. Do you see it as a game because you are doing unrealistic funny things that you won't in real?

There is a difference between being and pretending to be.

 Which makes any PC simulator a game for the most of us.

 It is a simulator, but so is sim city and farming simulator. They are all games… .

 In my book simulation is (again, In most cases) another type of game, just like FPS and strategic games are. 
 

when someone is pretending to be something he is not ( in our case an airplane pilot) it becomes a game…

57 minutes ago, soaring_penguin said:

There is a difference between being and pretending to be.

 Which makes any PC simulator a game for the most of us.

 It is a simulator, but so is sim city and farming simulator. They are all games… .

 In my book simulation is (again, In most cases) another type of game, just like FPS and strategic games are. 
 

when someone is pretending to be something he is not ( in our case an airplane pilot) it becomes a game…

Et voilá !

2 hours ago, soaring_penguin said:

simulation is (again, In most cases) another type of game

Flip that around and you wouldn't necessarily have to use "in most cases". Video games utilize various simulation techniques to create a virtual world. It's interesting to go look through the graphics technology conference topics on water and atmosphere rendering. They all generally start with some form of the Navier-Stokes equations. Same situation with most of the rest of gfx rendering tech. Turns out that if you want something to be visually convincing, you must go to the IRL physics as a starting point. Even if it's destined for Halo's imaginary halo world or (thank you Coffee Stain Studios) Goat Simulator.

On 2/7/2025 at 1:31 PM, Bjoern said:

Come on, don't move the goalposts here. AutoCAD, Photoshop, etc. are not games because they serve no entertainment purposes whatsoever.

No I am not moving the goalpost and you are right since neither AutoCad or Photoshop serve no entertainment purpose but one thing AutoCAD shares in common is both software offer an Professional as well as a retail version(AutoCAD lt) that shares the same code base with both its professional much like X-Plane professional vs their retail version. 

What is simular about AutoCAD and X-Plane professional is both software cost is very high, AutoCad offers feature like creating 3D design where its counterpart does not while Xplane feature are generally the same with exception of the feature required for FAA certification can be unlock with a USB key. 

In both case, anyone who will spend that kind of money to seek this type of application is not going to using it primarily as a game but more as something to study given the ability of its real world application and the cost in getting it. From a gamer or user curiosity seeker its a nice to have for a cockpit builder in X Plane case or an inspiring designer in AutoCAD case. Features that are given that they would not be satisfied with using a light or retail version.

On 2/7/2025 at 1:31 PM, Bjoern said:

If they lock the general audience out of P3D, it will turn into professional training software.

P3D has always been a professional training software offered from LM, just like AutoCad. When was the last time you seen any versions of P3D be offer at Amazon?  It was the user community using P3D as an extension of FSX still does not change P3D as being anything other than for professional training purposes. What you want to do with it still do not defined what it is.

It is what it allows you to do as a user to let you  go as far as you want go with it and if you go all the way, the professional route, then that is was its capability of. What is what it design to do. Something like that I don't view as a game even if you can make a game out of it.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 20251 yr by BobFS88

12 minutes ago, BobFS88 said:

 is both software offer an Professional and well as a retail version(AutoCAD lt) that shares the same code base with both its professional much like X-Plane professional vs their retail version. 

 

How are we still having this conversation.

Commercial Use is something completely different again. video games can be licenced for commercial use (e.g. in arcades or lan centers) - the licence for them is just as expensive as autocad or xplane professional.

I keep getting YT clips for some tetris movie, there is a lot of this background in that.

26 minutes ago, mSparks said:

How are we still having this conversation.

We are still having these conversation because it still lingers in the minds of those who won't stop at nothing to call anything they see as a game just because it runs on a pc.

 

27 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Commercial Use is something completely different again. video games can be licenced for commercial use (e.g. in arcades or lan centers) - the licence for them is just as expensive as autocad or xplane professional.

"Commercial Use is something completely different again." you're right but it has been pointed out that a level D {that is a professional simulator) uses in an undisciplined matter can operated like a game as well but does that mean its a game? 

That is the point of what we are discussing here.

If a piece of software design with the ability to take you as far as you want to go and if that is the professional realm that they seeks than that what it is. The benefit from the disciplined in its design that the professional version brings to the light versions (AutoCAD iT or X Plane) all of that which is what many who care about that seeks.

It is the intent of what the system or software is use for, in the case of Xplane, it is a flight simulator also know as an engineering tool and not relegate to some stupid game status because it runs on some pc or because some other developer does not want to priorities what a flight simulator is at its core design but would rather submit to a bunch of concepts that only gamers care about in the name of profit. If people want to call X Plane game, that's fine for their purposes but that does not change what the software is, a flight simulator software period.

"video games can be licenced for commercial use (e.g. in arcades or lan centers)" Based on what they are license for, to use in a business setting for that purpose, game playing . The video game itself does not become professional but it is commercial software that is not sold in retail outlets for obvious reason, with the exception of those who are already have retail establish markets like "Pacman, Doom" and other similar like it. 

 

8 hours ago, Franz007 said:

And what does the definition of "simulatio/simulator" in that encyclopedy say? Have you checked it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation

Yes I checked it, and halfway down the page you find this:

 

From the previous page we come to this:

 

And from the previous page we come to this:

 

And so the circle closes definitively, that is when the user @Aglos77 wrote... "If you are looking for an xplane simulator, if you are looking for an MFS video game", ... he wrote a nonsense.

Encyclopedically MFS and Xplane are both video games (or both "simulators" if you prefer to call them that, but they are still video games).

17 minutes ago, efis007 said:

Encyclopedically MFS and Xplane are both video games (or both "simulators" if you prefer to call them that, but they are still video games).

I never said something else. They are both. And what does Bing-copilot say?

“In general, Microsoft Flight Simulator (MSFS) is considered to be more "gamey" compared to X-Plane. Here’s why:

Accessibility and User Experience

• Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020: Offers a range of difficulty settings and assists to make the game accessible to casual players and flight enthusiasts alike. The game includes tutorials and guided experiences, which makes it easier for beginners to get started and have fun.

• X-Plane: Tends to be more focused on realism and may have a steeper learning curve for new users. It's designed more with serious simmers and aviation professionals in mind.

Content and Activities

• Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020: Includes a variety of game-like elements such as missions, challenges, and achievements. The immersive world exploration and detailed scenery also add to the "gamey" feel.

• X-Plane: While it does offer some challenges and training scenarios, it generally lacks the structured missions and game-like activities that MSFS provides.

User Community and Add-ons

• Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020: Has a large and active community that creates and shares custom content, adding to the game-like experience. The official marketplace offers both free and paid add-ons to enhance gameplay.

• X-Plane: Also has a strong community and many available add-ons, but the focus is often on realism and detailed aircraft systems.

Overall, if you're looking for a more accessible and game-like experience, Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 might be the better choice. X-Plane, on the other hand, is preferred by those who seek a highly realistic flight simulation experience. It all depends on what you’re after in your virtual skies!

 

Edited February 9, 20251 yr by Franz007

I agree with Austin Meyers. Whether you call it a video game or a simulator, it is the same thing.

 

16 minutes ago, efis007 said:

Encyclopedically MFS and Xplane are both video games (or both "simulators" if you prefer to call them that, but they are still video games).

It seems to be a hard concept to grasp for many that flight simulators are a subcategory of video games. Just as racing simulators are also video game.

We are all playing video games ladies and gentlemen. period.

4 minutes ago, brinx said:

It seems to be a hard concept to grasp for many that flight simulators are a subcategory of video games. Just as racing simulators are also video game.

We are all playing video games ladies and gentlemen. period.

It‘s not hard to grasp since it‘s the category they are. On the other side it seems hard to grasp for some that X-Plane is a simulator (too). Nothing wrong if someone prefers callng it a game. That simply reflects their way of using it.

18 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

It‘s not hard to grasp since it‘s the category they are. On the other side it seems hard to grasp for some that X-Plane is a simulator (too). Nothing wrong if someone prefers callng it a game. That simply reflects their way of using it.

@Franz007 What other side are you talking about? I said that flight simulators are videos games. I believe that is what @efis007 was pointing out.  Of course, they are simulators too as I said. So, it can be used as a video game or training tool.

Hello folks,
my wife always asks me when I go into my computer room. Well, you go flying again. So she doesn't say that I'm going to play. So it's a simulator. It's that simple. 😄

Flight sim forums are where the real entertainment is!