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RFields5421

Why are so few ordering the 747-8 pax ?

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The proposed 747-8 is going to a magnificent aircraft. It's going to be a gigantic type of Dreamliner with beautiful new interior, lights, seats, etc. I see LUFTHANSA ordered a large number with options but I am dismayed that nobody else has done so for the pax version. Why is this? Why has Boeing had such limited success with an aircraft that is the best jumbo jet the world has ever seen and that is enormously popular with so many ?Perhaps when the A380 program crashes and burns more fully (not that it is really cause for celebration--I actually almost feel sorry for the company and especially its beleagured workers), folks will return to the venerable 747 and give it another 30 years of life ? JS

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I think Airbus was wrong on their count of a market size. The aircraft is too large and doesn't have any use outside of the revamped airports for it. A reason for not so many orders for the 748 is the same thing. Until the airlines have to do a fleet renewal of their heavies then we will see some new orders.

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I would think that many airlines will be renewing their fleets of heavies over the next decade.Often we don't think of the 747-400 as being "old", but the earliest 747-400's are with the launch customer, Northwest Airlines, and even those aircraft are 20 years old now. I don't expect NWA to upgrade its -400's anytime soon, but some others will.The 747-200's and -300's still in service, with airlines like recently-in-the-news Pakistan International, have even more hours on their airframes.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

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The logistics of loading and unloading over 200 passengers are extensive.Th A-380 was designed for a pre-9/11 world with very low security requirements and $30 per barrell oil. The fuel savings and operational advantages of the A-380 and the B748 are not enough for most companies to justify replacing their current heavy fleet.Maybe in 10-20 years when the cost of maintaining the older birds gets much higher.The "beautiful new interior" means nothing to the airlines. They will buy a couple, but the vast majority will be back to the old sardine cans interior we have now very quickly.

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>The logistics of loading and unloading over 200 passengers are >extensive.I dont think this should be of too much concern. At most the A380 can acommadate 853 persons, that is in a all economy layout which has not been selected by any airline. In a standard layout the aircraft will hold 555 persons, only 139 more than a 747 in a similar layout. Also security should not be a issue, all the airports i have been through have security, then the departure lounge where you get your cheap aftershave and tea! When boarding the aircraft all I ever do is show passport and boarding pass then go on, its not as if they search everyone who boards the plane at the gate.What is a problem however is the ammendments to taxi ways etc to allow the aircraft to operate safely, the A380 has been tested in a few European airports and 2 are due to fly to LA and New York on the 19th of March to check compatibility. Dave

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>Also security should not be a issue, all the airports i have>been through have security, then the departure lounge where>you get your cheap aftershave and tea! When boarding the>aircraft all I ever do is show passport and boarding pass then>go on, its not as if they search everyone who boards the plane>at the gate.Last time I flew on an air carrier was last year and I had to takeoff my shoes, coat, belt send my bag through the xray machines then be taken off to be questioned and have a puffer blow on me. This has happened to my whole family in the past year and many friends. Thank god for the R182RG my family purchased for me. We won't have to go through security again on our local vacations.

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>Last time I flew on an air carrier was last year and I had to>takeoff my shoes, coat, belt send my bag through the xray>machines then be taken off to be questioned and have a puffer>blow on me. This has happened to my whole family in the past>year and many friends. Thank god for the R182RG my family>purchased for me. We won't have to go through security again>on our local vacations.Wow, I stand corrected! I have only ever heard of this from rumours. All I have had to do when I have flown (in europe, US etc before and since 9/11) is go through security once before enetering departure lounge. Did this happen to every passenger? At the gate right before boarding the aircraft? Its a wonder the airport can get any passengers through! Id love to be able to fly myself to holiday! certainly beat sitting in traffic jams!Dave

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I have had to take my belt, shoes off and my wallet out. The security card in my wallet gave a funny reading and it was scanned separately. I have seen baby carriages get a through screening with the wand.What would a 748 be worth?JimCYWG

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$240 million.....? Or....$170 million with a good BOEING discount ?JS

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I lied. It's more ! Official BOEING prices as of now (in USD millions)747 Family 747-400/ -400ER 216.0 -- 247.5 747-400/ -400ER Freighter 219.5 -- 247.0 747-8 272.5 -- 282.5 747-8 Freighter 279.5 -- 283.5

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>>Thank god for the R182RG my family purchased for me.<

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If really was such a "magnificent aircraft" with "beautiful new interior, lights, seats" and is "the best jumbo jet the world has ever seen" and is also "enormously popular with so many" then it wouldn't have had limited success. Clearly many airlines don't agree it's so good, otherwise they'd have ordered more.

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>Perhaps when the A380 program crashes and burns more fully>(not that it is really cause for celebration--I actually>almost feel sorry for the company and especially its>beleagured workers), folks will return to the venerable 747>and give it another 30 years of life ? >>JS>>Yeah, that'll happen. :-roll-

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At least in my local airport (PHNL) the logistics of getting 555 persons from the gate through customs would be a bit of a challenge. Almopst all of our 744 flights are from/to Asia. I assume these routes would be most applicable to the A-380.scott s..

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OK, chaps, you can laugh, but the airlines WILL come around sooner or later. The 748 will be superior.I shoulda been a salesman for Boeing, hah !JS

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Yes they will - but Boeing has a problem - they built the B747-400 and the B777-300 so well that there is no financial advantage to replacing them before the other birds get very old.

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VERY true! They are the DC-3s of our lifetime, eh ?JS

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Airlines regard their aircraft as money-making machines. Manufacturers' sales teams will be trying to convince the airlines that their aircraft will be a few cents cheaper to operate per passenger mile.Words like "magnificent aircraft", "beautiful new interior, lights, seats", "the best jumbo jet the world has ever seen" and "enormously popular with so many" will have no real effect on the decision to purchas.

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Yeah, (sigh!), I guess I really am living in the past. I remember that Boeing built the 747 some 40 years ago because they wanted to see just how big an aircraft they could build and they were pushing the envelope for style, speed, adventure, risk, and so on. In the old days, people would buy into that stuff for a lot of reasons.I am sorry aviation has become the pig of a business it now is globally. It's miserable compared to what it was. A friend of mine bought me a huge heavy book for my birthday recently called "Gourmet and Glamour In The Sky", by George Banks. It weighs about 5 lbs. and is a gloriously illustrated book about cabin service since it first began 90 years ago. It proves to me that I was not dreaming, that once upon a time--until about 1990 or so--it was a fun and exciting experience to fly internationally and see the world.Not any more. I'd almost rather pay not to fly.Simming is a lot more fun than real life these days. I can imagine it's still 1964 as I taxi my VC-10 to EGLL 32L for takeoff to Cyprus or New Delhi. Now THAT was when flying was great.Anyway, "Long Live The Queen!"JS

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Yes it was - for the few who were rich enough to afford the fares.

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>Yes it was - for the few who were rich enough to afford the>fares.Perhaps the government should have stepped in with a Poverty Passenger program. :-hah EwingKATLAlcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a store, not a government agency.MSI K8N Neo2 PlatinumAMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.0 GHz2GB Corsair PC-3200 512x4 Dual Channel CL2.5 DDR DIMM eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT 256MB DDR3Sound Blaster Audigy LSOCZ Powerstream 420WWinXPPro (SP1)

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They did. Ever see a stretch DC-8 military charter....Sardines have more room in their can.

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