'Grey' Ortho and Haze

[MrBitstFlyer]

I'm taking another look at XP12 because I have an issue in MSFS2024 that doesn't look like it will be addressed.

I have installed a fresh copy of XP12 and updated to the latest beta.  I have installed the Map Enhancement Tool and Global Forests (Sim Heaven will follow).  I have two issues.

1.  Ortho seems to have a veil over it, kind of greyed out.  I used XP12 for six months when it was first released, and the Ortho looked great.

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2.  Excessive Haze/low visibility.  Every flight so far in different live weather, even when reported clear and no clouds, has reduced visibility like this.

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Edited May 22 by MrBitstFlyer

[Ianrivaldosmith]

Try and increase digital vibrancy to 60-65% in the nvidia control panel. 

Also, try and use BING maps in map enhancement pro version. 

[Litjan]

While there are some reasons why haze may be over-represented in X-Plane 12 when using "download real weather" (more on that below), the predominant factor for complaints about it is users being used to other simulators portraying the world in more vibrant colors.

While many real-world pilots wish the world would look more like it does in other simulators (I do, too), most of the time it unfortunately doesn´t and it is hazy and murky out there. Of course there are some areas where this is not true (the Sahara, Arizona, the Atacama desert,...), so if you are from Phoenix, you will likely find X-Plane 12 to be too hazy in general.

You can improve this by switching to manual weather and sliding the visibility to 100 miles.

"Download real weather" will likely make the world a bit more murky than it should be, too - because there is no data about visibility in the files that X-Plane downloads beyond 15 miles (iirc) - so X-Plane resorts to an internal calculation, using dewpoint and temperature to figure out how dry (and clear) the air would be.

Then there is the fact that the X-Plane world as seen from your vantage point only extends by 2 degrees latitude in the east-west direction (you fly over terrain tiles that are 1x1 degree lat/lon and they only extend for another 2 tiles in every direction for a total of 5x5=25 tiles loaded).
So at higher latitudes, the distance at which the low-resolution terrain starts (mostly just an elevation mesh, no streets, houses, trees, etc.) is only 2 x 60NM x cos(lat) away. At 60 deg north this is a distance of 60NM, so if visibility would be significantly higher than that, users would see the edge of the high detail terrain very well, which the haze tries to cover up.

[CO2Neutral]

My understanding is the haze simulation is single pass on the render pipeline and it should be multi-pass, but apparently this causes performance issues hence single pass.

I agree that haze/visibility is common in the real world of flight, but “haze” layers vary considerably as on flies and by altitude.  For example Ghana, haze is pretty much always 24/7, however in PNW, haze is on/off and can vary greatly.

Solution is multi-pass layers of haze with blending to depict a much more realistic world.   MSFS 2024 is getting a little better at this but agree most simulators don’t simulate it well which is likely tied to performance limitations of current hardware (DLSS, frame gen are likely to make this worse).

[Falconjet112]

As IRL pilot...one of the reasons why I love Xplane so much is the realistic depiction of haze. It is very realistic and adds depth to the atmosphere. 

My understanding is that the GFS GRIB files the simulator uses for real world global weather includes visibility for depiction in the sim. 

In some locations Xplane will depict excellent visibility with no haze as per reality. 

MSFS2020 and 2024 depicts almost limitless visibility everywhere all of the time. Highly unrealistic and one of reasons why I don't touch these sims anymore. 

[alanw2005]

2 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I'm taking another look at XP12 because I have an issue in MSFS2024 that doesn't look like it will be addressed.

I have installed a fresh copy of XP12 and updated to the latest beta.  I have installed the Map Enhancement Tool and Global Forests (Sim Heaven will follow).  I have two issues.

1.  Ortho seems to have a veil over it, kind of greyed out.  I used XP12 for six months when it was first released, and the Ortho looked great.

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

2.  Excessive Haze/low visibility.  Every flight so far in different live weather, even when reported clear and no clouds, has reduced visibility like this.

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

My X-Plane looks like that on some days and I say wow!! They have accurately modelled smog and haze in my city. In MSFS 2024 you are use to having 4K vision in technicolor, everyday.

[MrBitstFlyer]

3 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Try and increase digital vibrancy to 60-65% in the nvidia control panel. 

Also, try and use BING maps in map enhancement pro version. 

That has improved it.  Someone else has said maybe I am used to 2024 being too clear.

[GoranM]

2 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Someone else has said maybe I am used to 2024 being too clear.

2024 does look very good when it comes to scenery, but the overall colors are too saturated, there is too much ambient occlusion, and the contrast is a little too high, giving it a "hyper color" appearance that looks "good" but is not realistic.  

[MrBitstFlyer]

23 minutes ago, GoranM said:

2024 does look very good when it comes to scenery, but the overall colors are too saturated, there is too much ambient occlusion, and the contrast is a little too high, giving it a "hyper color" appearance that looks "good" but is not realistic.  

I have also been using HDR in MSFS since I last used XP12 a couple of years ago, so I think that is adding to my dull appearance of XP12.

[alanw2005]

21 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I have also been using HDR in MSFS since I last used XP12 a couple of years ago, so I think that is adding to my dull appearance of XP12.

Play around with weather settings or use real time weather and embrace the smog.

 

[alanw2005]

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I have also been using HDR in MSFS since I last used XP12 a couple of years ago, so I think that is adding to my dull appearance of XP12.

Check out the hazy sunset in Vancouver at 5:52 on final. But when you look in a direction not into the sun (i.e. at 7:12 and 8:31 in the PIP camera), it is noticebly clearer. If you are flying into the sun, XP has a sunglasses mode to reduce brightness and glare. I think XP has done an amazing job. You don't get this in MSFS.
 

 

Edited May 22 by alanw2005

[MrBitstFlyer]

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

2024 does look very good when it comes to scenery, but the overall colors are too saturated, there is too much ambient occlusion, and the contrast is a little too high, giving it a "hyper color" appearance that looks "good" but is not realistic.  

I have XP12 looking very good now after finding some settings posts on here. However, the haze does appear to be overdone though - much better than haze in 2024.  I follow many GA pilots on YouTube and the haze is there but not as much as I'm currently seeing over the UK.

[MrBitstFlyer]

11 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

Check out the hazy sunset in Vancouver at 5:52 on final. But when you look in a direction not into the sun, it is noticebly clearer. If you are flying into the sun, XP has a sunglasses mode to reduce brightness and glare. 
 

 

That is a lot less haze than I'm seeing.  I have flown in the UK and many different areas in the US and I haven't seen that clarity anywhere!

[Ianrivaldosmith]

2 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I have also been using HDR in MSFS since I last used XP12 a couple of years ago, so I think that is adding to my dull appearance of XP12.

Enable auto hdr and it works fine for XP12 

[mSparks]

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I have flown in the UK 

what you should expect to see in XP12 flying round the UK:

I'd say others have covered it reasonably well, but its also better to go against real source material rather than "what other sims do" imho.