7 hours ago, psolk said:

Again with the 170 FPS on a 60hz monitor....  🤷‍♂️

Better than some reports i read of people that limit the simulator to 30fps (being able to run much more) and THEN apply frame generation. Probably the biggest (i don't even have a name for it) i've ever seen.

4 hours ago, Nuno Pinto said:

Probably the biggest (i don't even have a name for it) i've ever seen.

Why though? It makes sense - if you know your hardware can easily do 30 fps, you know that framegen will give you a guaranteed 60 fps. It makes sense for people with hardware that can do 30 without breaking a sweat, but then it can't quite get to 60 natively.. so it fluctuates between say 30 -55 fps. In that case, your frame gen also goes between 60-110 fps..but if you only have a 60hz refresh monitor 60 fps rock solid is what you need.

Why don't you like it?

4 hours ago, Nuno Pinto said:

Better than some reports i read of people that limit the simulator to 30fps (being able to run much more) and THEN apply frame generation. Probably the biggest (i don't even have a name for it) i've ever seen.

How is thinking you are really getting 170FPS on a 60hz monitor worse than locking before FG?  I don't personally but why not? 

That's definitely not worse than me getting 300 FPS on a 120hz monitor LOL... One of those is defying what a monitor is physically capable of and can't discern between GPU FPS and what a monitor is actually capable of displaying subsequently wasting GPU resources.

Edited June 3, 20251 yr by psolk

FG is meant to duplicate consistent already high frame rates (60+) for it to be efficient. Doubling a low framerate will just work poorly. It's like using your cellphone to film vertically - You can do it, but it's not how you SHOULD do it. Info is available on the net, you can even ask your favourite AI source about it and use cases.

2 minutes ago, Nuno Pinto said:

FG is meant to duplicate consistent already high frame rates (60+) for it to be efficient.

Efficient? From what perspective? Power saving? Maximum use of hardware? Max fps/watt? How do you define "efficient" in this context?

3 minutes ago, Nuno Pinto said:

Doubling a low framerate will just work poorly.

Why do you think 30 fps is poor for FG? What is poor? Visual artifacts - yes, can have some around fast moving objects like the engines, but that doesnt' affect the game much at all, unless you are looking at the engine spinners or somethign like that. Otherwise, the game is perfectly smooth. 

Latency/Input lag? Not relevant for flight sim - not doing twitch motions that require instantaneous responses?

So what's poor? If it looks fine, works great, and is perfectly smooth at a steady 60 fps.. what's poor?

6 minutes ago, Nuno Pinto said:

It's like using your cellphone to film vertically - You can do it, but it's not how you SHOULD do it.

?? Says who? Vertical video is perfectly acceptable depending on your use case (umm. Tiktok, Reels, YouTube Shorts..). Feature film/tv show? No, don't shoot vertical. Tiktok - shoot vertical. Depends on use case, just like FG - yes, a fast paced shooter needs native high fps, but in flight sim??

7 minutes ago, Nuno Pinto said:

Info is available on the net, you can even ask your favourite AI source about it and use cases.

I haven't found this info on the net on a quick search. If you have an authoritative source on this, would love to read it? As for ChatGPT or the like.. that's hardly a good source for this lol. I tried asking it and got links to multiple reddit posts and AVsim posts where it's basically the same as this thread - opinions with no data. 

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/frame-generation-working-at-all-in-2024-4080/670045/13
https://old.reddit.com//r/hardware/comments/1hxqxln/is_the_minimum_fps_threshold_for_frame_generation/

 

And here's an actual good source Digital Foundry

Notice at 00:54, they talk about Flight Simulator.. and how it's perfectly acceptable to do frame gen at 30 internal, up to 60, and it would work fine. "Everything is slow, these aren't fast games so you can easily use it at native 30". Other games, not necessarily. "Every game has their own input latency, and it depends on the game and your own sensitivity to latency in that game"

I have a powerful machine and can easily run with FG uncapped, but I cap it at 30 (*x2 = 60 fps) and my machine runs quieter, cooler, and the game runs great. So yeah, I'm with Digital Foundry. 30 fps doubled to 60 is perfectly fine. 

Just think that all screen rendering processing may not only apply to screen rendering.

dd

2 hours ago, Nuno Pinto said:

FG is meant to duplicate consistent already high frame rates (60+) for it to be efficient. Doubling a low framerate will just work poorly. 

Not anymore.

2 hours ago, Nuno Pinto said:

FG is meant to duplicate consistent already high frame rates (60+) for it to be efficient. Doubling a low framerate will just work poorly.

That’s not correct. It’s lossless scaling that requires a consistent frame rate to perform properly.

 I have a 4070ti super, a 60hz monitor and TrackIr. If I run unlimited frames and FG x 2 I get an on screen fps rate in the 70’s to 90’s and stuttering, especially when panning.

If I limit my frames to 30 in game and then apply x 2 FSR3 frame gen then I get an incredibly smooth performance at a solid 60fps with overall settings higher than before to exploit the extra headroom I have.

 

 

Edited June 4, 20251 yr by DD_Arthur

4 hours ago, JonathanC said:

I have a powerful machine and can easily run with FG uncapped, but I cap it at 30 (*x2 = 60 fps) and my machine runs quieter, cooler, and the game runs great. So yeah, I'm with Digital Foundry. 30 fps doubled to 60 is perfectly fine

I found fluidity and panning quality amply wonderful at 60FPS-fg.  I just could not tolerate the visual artifacts especially with respect to using a 2nd display so never use it anymore. I upgraded my CPU so that I could hopefully maintain 50FPS-native everywhere and that is the case now, almost always with 10% headroom or more.  Sometimes have gone as low as 42 but that is pretty rare.  I find 50FPS about the same in terms of fluidity and panning quality as 60FPS.  I can easily bump the lock to 60 or higher when demand is lower but it's just not worth the effort as 50FPS-native is a decent minimum standard.

9 hours ago, JonathanC said:

?? Says who? Vertical video is perfectly acceptable depending on your use case (umm. Tiktok, Reels, YouTube Shorts..). Feature film/tv show? No, don't shoot vertical. Tiktok - shoot vertical.

 As for ChatGPT or the like.. that's hardly a good source for this lol.

 

This is hilarious. I can't even comment on these two sentences.

 

7 hours ago, Mace said:

Not anymore.

It is. You have a 4090 (why do you even use FG) but if you had a 4060 which is a low end card that just can't cope at all times like i did, you would know. I had to upgrade it because panning inside the cockpit was just painful due to the lack of smoothness even though, with FG, the 4060 would produce 70-80 fps most of the time.

7 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

That’s not correct. It’s lossless scaling that requires a consistent frame rate to perform properly.

 I have a 4070ti super, a 60hz monitor and TrackIr. If I run unlimited frames and FG x 2 I get an on screen fps rate in the 70’s to 90’s and stuttering, especially when panning.

If I limit my frames to 30 in game and then apply x 2 FSR3 frame gen then I get an incredibly smooth performance at a solid 60fps with overall settings higher than before to exploit the extra headroom I have.

Your video doesn't display that. I see a lot of "hesitation" and some stuttering on fast movement. It might be ok if you just fly outside and watch the scenery go by but that doesn't work for me. I have a 4070 Ti Super which is just a tad above yours and i wouldn't dare run at 30fps and FG it to 60. With a 1440p 144hz GSYNC monitor i just let it produce as many frames as it can (i do use FG) and THIS is a true stutter-free, hesitation-free experience. The minor lag introduced and some minor artifacts here and there outside the plane are something i can live with, i do spend 99.9% of the time inside anyway.

 

But all in all some interestig views here, nice that it works for all of you. Boy, that vertical video thing still makes me giggle... Time for popcorn and watch from my seat.

Edited June 4, 20251 yr by Nuno Pinto

2 hours ago, Nuno Pinto said:

 i wouldn't dare run at 30fps and FG it to 60. 

Go on Nuno, live dangerously and give it a try; see what you think!

 I have a g sync monitor too. I think I’m running up to the vram limit with some of my settings and sometimes my TrackIr limit. I’m in a fairly bright room.

15 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Go on Nuno, live dangerously and give it a try; see what you think!

 I have a g sync monitor too. I think I’m running up to the vram limit with some of my settings and sometimes my TrackIr limit. I’m in a fairly bright room.

I could, i just don't see the need. But i guess you at least deserve me trying it, although i don't use VR nor anything and am pretty happy with the extra smoothness such high refresh rates offer with such a low power budget. My undervolted 4070Ti Super uses some ~180 watts while flying only.

But i digress, i WILL take a look.

Best part of SU 2 for me is the smoothness and fast loading. It just makes it a pleasure to fly. 

4 hours ago, Nuno Pinto said:

and am pretty happy with the extra smoothness such high refresh rates offer with such a low power budget. 

Yes, good to know the 4070 will drive a 144hz monitor.

Must admit, I’ve been really pleased with the 4070ti super. I think it’s a great card. Picked it up just before they ran out of stock and it all went merde!

🙃

9 hours ago, Nuno Pinto said:

It is. You have a 4090 (why do you even use FG) but if you had a 4060 which is a low end card that just can't cope at all times like i did, you would know. I had to upgrade it because panning inside the cockpit was just painful due to the lack of smoothness even though, with FG, the 4060 would produce 70-80 fps most of the time.

You really should try it before you knock it.  FG has advanced a lot in the last year+.  Unless you're at 4K, your cpu has more to do with framerate anyway.

You should also know that my rig, despite 7800X3D + 4090, cannot always maintain 4K 60 fps in all situations and with all add-ons.   That is why FG is still important, even for my setup.  It allows me to peg fps at the refresh rate at all times, and it's totally and completely smooth.  Panning is amazing.   It's all about leaving HEADROOM for data spikes.  And I have it in spades.