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PhilTaylor

Wings on - upside down??

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I run FSx with SP1 - using an Intel Dio Core with 2 Gig RAM and a 256 meg vid card. I am reasonably happy with its performance - and it largely does what I want.BUT - every now and then, when I load up a flight or mission, I discover that my aircraft wings are on upside down , or the helo rotor is at right angles to where it should be or the control column is upside down, rudder pedals have disappeared, etc.I cant find any consistent reason for this - or any reason at all really. I have eliminated weather, set scenery settings to minimum, etc - and it seems to make no difference.For example - whenever I load up the free sample Mission from Just Flight , it always loads with the helo rotor at right angles to where it should beHas anybody else seen anything like thisThanks barry

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hi barry, yes, I have seen that. I used to see that with my 256 meg video card, too. ;)Now, with my 768 meg vid card, I don't see that.When that happened to me, I would reboot the machine, and usually the graphic anomaly would be gone.I can't explain what causes it, or what the reason for it is. It seems to me though, that it is logical to conclude that it is a function of the amount of vid mem, or lack thereof.RhettFS box: E8500 (@ 3.80 ghz), AC Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64ASX Client: AMD 3700+ (@ 2.6 ghz), 7800GT

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I remember a thread on this some time back. I can't recall the cause or the outcome. But as I think about, I also saw that kind of thing. It may have been when I used my old 7950 256 MB card. I know I haven't seen it with my 512 card.Bob

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Sounds like another FSX screw-up to add to the list... :(Best regards,Robin.

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this is a symptom of running out of video memory, as mentioned.either turning settings down or purchasing a video card with more memory will fix this.with an open-ended system like FSX, this can happen. the alternative is a "locked down" system where there is not as much configurability and extensibility. I think the trade-off ( the occasional gotcha that is easily rectified ) is worth the loss of configurability and extensibility, but ymmv.

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>Sounds like another FSX screw-up to add to the list... :(You might want to consider not saying anything unless you actually KNOW the facts......unless of course you enjoy wiping egg off your face... :-lol I mean, MS/ACES is supposed to assume responsibility for anyone's underpowered and ancient video card how? :-hah

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>> I mean, MS/ACES is supposed to assume responsibility for anyone's >> underpowered and ancient video card how?I wouldn't have said it had anything to do with power.Maybe someone would like to explain it to me, but I can't see how a lack of video memory would result in things being drawn upside down, etc.. Obviously it is there if it is being drawn, no?@Phil: Thanks for the info.>> ymmv???Best regards,Robin.

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the engine favors drawing immediately over waiting for all resources. this means you keep flying, instead of the rendering stopping and waiting for resources while the sim clock kept on ticking. if the engine was not architectured that way, the possibility of something bad ( like the plane crashing ) while waiting for the rendering would be high since the sim clock is still ticking and advancing the simulation. if the engine is architectured like that, yes you get a visual anomaly now and then but at least you can see the scene and can keep on giving accurate control input in response to the simulation.so even if a resource doesnt fit, the engine keeps on drawing. if the resource is one that has to do with skinned animations, like wingflex, it can result in wierdness if that resource isnt present. just because the geometry resource is present ( the wing ) doesnt mean the texture resource or the animation resource is present.missing resources is the same reason for the discombobulated planes, where the pieces are all over the place. it can either be from a bad install ( which the ShowMissing* tweak would show ) or from not enough memory ( which a new card or dropping the settings would fix )it really isnt hard to understand, with an open-ended system. we give you scissors, be careful running with them.

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Thanks PhilThis has been pointed out to me before - however my vid card has 256 meg RAM and, I keep an eye on vid RAM being used (by using MEMSTATUS). The Vid RAM when this anomoly occurs does not exceed the amount of RAM on the card - and, in my attempts to get some kind of commonality or re-occurence of the situation, I have at times increased my vid settings to the point where the vid RAM used is excessive - BUT the anomoly does not appear. And this "discombobulation" :-) only happens now and again. If it wasn't coming from you directly- I hate to say that I would have regarded an answer like this as being one of those answers that are given when nobody knows the answer. I should rephrase that -- sometimes it appears to me that it is very easy to say that the answer to a problem lies with better hardware.BTW - this happens when I am on the ground.Sorry Barry

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I had this effect when I screwed around with the bufferpoolsize in the fsx.cfg. When I used a too high setting the Cessnas doors were on the wings etc...Then I deleted the fsx.cfg and let fsx rebuild it.Now everything is VERY fine again. :)I've decided to put the scissors back into the drawer let alone running with them ;)

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Nah - no playing around here with "Bufferpools" - standard default FSx.So far the only (highly unsatisfactory) answer to this is essentially that nobody knows the reason for this - except they have found that throwing more hardware at the problem has sent it away. Now let me see - what are the recommended minimum specs for this commercial product - OH yes - I can see here on the box 32 meg Video RAM -- my 256 meg should be AMPLE! And , in fact, it is ample - for most things! Except for these occasional glitches which I have enquired about.Barry

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Well, I've never seen a computer game which runs 'satisfactory' with the minimum specs. It's exactly what it states. The absolut minimum. Have you set ALL graphic options within FSX to their minimums?Then you shouldn't have any problems.There are GPU with 1GB memory available so at 256MB you are already close to the minimum IF you want more than minimum graphics.

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And like bstolle said above...even with your "above minimum" graphics card with an "impressive" 256mb of memory, if you crank up too many of the sliders in FSX, YOU will get "graphics anomolies", too.Quit complaining about "FSX Problems" if you don't have enough hardware to run it all. It isn't rocket science. If you put JP4 in a Cessna 150, it ain't gonna run worth crap either. FalconAF

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I seem to remember seeing many times that FSX was made to run with sliders at "normal" or in the middle, without add ons. Seems to me that once you go above that, add use addons(which may not be written well), than I think all bets are off. At that point, You need to throw all the hardware you can at FSX. There are plenty of people who have spent thousands and still have problems. We all learn to trust our eyes, not the box.Bob

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Bob,I agree with the "trust our eyes, not the box" statement. But I gotta tell ya...there is one continual "problem" that exists in the Flight Simulator user community that many users just refuse to recognize or accept.You HAVE to become educated about the HARDWARE if you want any computer to perform at it's maximum potential. It doesn't matter WHAT you are using the computer for...it is a PLATFORM that runs application software. If the end user is ignorant about the platform and how to make it work correctly (and KEEP it working correctly over time), then NO amount of money thrown at a computer will "solve" these complaints from people. A brand new top-of-the-line rig will drag it's knees to bloody death after only several months of use without proper user maintenance.These continual complaints about FSX being the problem are rediculous. There are PLENTY of us who are running FSX with PLENTY of those additional addons, and the program runs FINE. No OOM's, no stuttering, no Blue Screens of Death...it runs FINE. I've done IT for over 30 years, and flight simming since the Commodore 64. Yeah...I know how to get the most out of a computer...and how to KEEP it running that way. And all that knowledge I acquired over 30 years is available now for FREE to ANYBODY who wants to take the time to LEARN it. It's ALL on the Internet. You don't have to pay to go to a school to learn it. You don't even have to leave your house. I've got a Core2Duo...NOT Quad...NOT over-clocked either...ONE video card that MAKES SENSE for FSX (not 256mb), and I'm running a TH2G 3-wide display off of one of the video ports, and a 24" side monitor off the other. IT WORKS FINE. No OOM's...NO stutters...No BSODs. And every session in FSX includes running ASX, FSC, Radar Contact, and a few other apps at the SAME TIME, with addon aircraft like the PMDG 747.If someone is gonna buy a computer to "play games", then take the time to also learn how to use the COMPUTER correctly, not just the "game". And get realistic about what kind of hardware requirements are needed for a product like FSX if you want to use ALL of the functions in it. Microsoft didn't lie to anybody. FSX WILL run on a system with only a 64mb video card...as a MINIMUM. And that's ALL they stated. They never said you'd be able to get 60 FPS with all the sliders maxed out with that video card. Just like you aren't gonna get that with a 256mb one either. If a person isn't going to get educated about how to use a computer for "gaming", then they shouldn't BUY one in the first place. Go get one of those "game boxes" that don't require user maintenance to keep them running right.***rant over***Rick

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>Nah - no playing around here with "Bufferpools" - standard>default FSx.>>So far the only (highly unsatisfactory) answer to this is>essentially that nobody knows the reason for this - except>they have found that throwing more hardware at the problem has>sent it away. Barry, my specs are listed in my signature block. If I don't shut down FSX and restart it every few days, eventually my video resources end up getting fully saturated and......visual oddities on my loaded aircraft become manifest, such as missing parts, misplaced parts, etc.Keep in mind that it's not just the loaded aircraft that's using resources, but everything being drawn on screen at any given moment.I also know without a doubt that it's the measley 256MB of video RAM that's the proximate cause of the saturated resources...

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>Thanks Phil>>This has been pointed out to me before - however my vid card>has 256 meg RAM and, I keep an eye on vid RAM being used (by>using MEMSTATUS). The Vid RAM when this anomoly occurs does>not exceed the amount of RAM on the card It is situations like this that make me wonder just how accurate the video memory reporting function of MemStatus really is.Plus with so many situational variables in the sim going on, as well as hardware variables, we don't know the exact threshold of mem beyond which the visual anomalies start appearing. Suffice it to say, I only ever saw it with a 256 or less mem card.RhettFS box: E8500 (@ 3.80 ghz), AC Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64ASX Client: AMD 3700+ (@ 2.6 ghz), 7800GT

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>Nah - no playing around here with "Bufferpools" - standard>default FSx.>>So far the only (highly unsatisfactory) answer to this is>essentially that nobody knows the reason for this Phil explained the reason to you exactly. ??(The sim drops texture loading to try to maintain frame rate.)RhettFS box: E8500 (@ 3.80 ghz), AC Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64ASX Client: AMD 3700+ (@ 2.6 ghz), 7800GT

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"There are PLENTY of us who are running FSX with PLENTY of those additional addons, and the program runs FINE. No OOM's, no stuttering, no Blue Screens of Death...it runs FINE."*************************************************That is true -- my machine runs FSx FINE - I have already said that. No blurries, no OOM's , no stuttering, plenty of addons , I often fly with Tileproxy and it is fantastic.My question is/was - why do these anomolies happen only sometimes?? The answer is not that my machine is not well maintained - nor is it that FSx needs to be rebooted. So far - only one person (apart from the buy bigger/better hardware crowd) has given me a possible suggestion to follow - the FPS slider. I have already stated that the scenery sliders make no difference to the situation! - so I am severly doubting that these sliders(and hence vid RAM) have anything to do with this problem. There is only one scenario where I can consistently repeat this problem - that is the free Mission from Just Flight - I will play around with it today in regards to the FPS slider and see if I can figure something out from that. Barry

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each flight is typically not the same, there are a lot of variables involved. unless you are starting the machine fresh each time with exactly the same flight and exactly the same settings.all that has to happen is a block of the correct contiguous size is not available. memory can appear to be free, but be fragmented enough that the right resource just cannot get memory allocated and then get loaded into that memory. the more you use a machine, the more likely runtime fragmentation of memory is.try turning all the sliders left and uncheck all checkboxes, some of the checkboxes imply memory usage as well.it could also be a memory leak from mission objects that is causing this to happen occasionally. when something happens so rarely, and in such a narrow scenario - that is usually an indication something within the scenario is triggering the issue and it is not a general problem.

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Statements about knowing your rig and keeping it in tip top shape are so true. I have learned alot about computers by trying to get FS to run. But I think you also need a minimum setup. I hear the fewest complaints from people who have at least a 3.0ghz core duo( higher is better) and a 512 mb video card(more may not be better). I am saving up to get a MB that I can overclock my 6750 on.Bob

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Hi PhilThanks for that input. This problem HAS to lie within the particular scenario (mission) - I can load up the identical a/c at the same airport , same weather etc - with scenery set as high as I like with no real problems (setting a realistic max frame rate.) But with this particular mission, I have to set every single scenery slider and checkbox to absolute minimum/off to be able to load the a/c properly. Apart from this , FSx is fine by me - within limitations of course. PS 512 meg vid cards are NOT necessary to run this sim wellBarry

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