29 minutes ago, roesti said:

I disagree. How can you "steal" digital goods? It's an illegal copy, against the law - no discussion. But it's not stealing. 

With this argument you would loose in court badly!

2 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

With this argument you would loose in court badly!

Of course you would, because it is a copyright violation. Still not theft.

35 minutes ago, roesti said:

I disagree. How can you "steal" digital goods? It's an illegal copy, against the law - no discussion. But it's not stealing. And while I agree with Farlis (piracy protection mainly hurts customers who spend their money instead of the "pirates"), the discussion should return to iniBuilds and the A340. Editing posts in this way just brings an unneccessary emotional component. Piracy is illegal and not encouraged, but in no way you can "steal" virtual / digital stuff. If somebody makes an unauthorized copy of something, it doesn't vanish from the hard disk of somebody else. I think this is the fallacy he wanted to point out (trying to prevent piracy doesn't lead to more sales automatically).

Exaxtly. It only makes buying something more of a hassle.

 

If it is true that it will remain Marketplace exclusive then I will buy it eventually, but I would very much have prefered it in the manager, not the least of the reasons being that the manager gives me better options where to store the data than a marketplace purchase.

The next being that Marketplace is Credit card only and I very much prefer paying with PayPal.

And of course the delay in update releases.

17 minutes ago, Farlis said:

I feel so much remorse now... NOT.

 

Software piracy is not theft. You can't steal immaterial goods.

And believe me I've seen all the unskippable adverts of the film industry against piracy with which they pestered everybody on the DVD's they BOUGHT.

 

If I were to break into a software developer's computer and took their work with me before it is released, not leaving them any backups anywhere THAT would be theft.

I cannot help that your deep arrogance, conceit and character flaws doesn't allow you the luxury of introspection but let me assure you that you're a scumbag just like all those scumbags who try and justify their shoplifting sprees.

You steal from people trying to make themselves a living by their own hard work and you steal from everyone on these boards who actually buy these products.

Theft is theft no matter how you try and dress it up and you are a thief.

4 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

I cannot help that your deep arrogance, conceit and character flaws doesn't allow you the luxury of introspection but let me assure you that you're a scumbag just like all those scumbags who try and justify their shoplifting sprees.

You steal from people trying to make themselves a living by their own hard work and you steal from everyone on these boards who actually buy these products.

Theft is theft no matter how you try and dress it up and you are a thief.

If it makes you feel morally superior go right ahead. But the correct verbage if you will is past tense "stole", not "steal".

 

It was 20 years ago. And I won't pretend like I regret it now. There is nothing to regret. Like I said: Reducing piracy will not increase sales. That's the error that companies always make in their assumptions about the damages it does. They see what they MIGHT have sold if all the pirated copies had been sold instead. But that's not what would happen.

And since when does piracy hurt those that buy products? What kind of argument is that?

Edited October 6, 2025Oct 6 by Farlis

1 minute ago, Farlis said:

If it makes you feel morally superior go right ahead. But the correct verbage if you will is past tens "stole", not "steal".

Please tell us; have you stolen anything today or yesterday?

Last week perhaps? Did it make you feel good? Superior? Please, tell us what it's like?

22 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Please tell us; have you stolen anything today or yesterday?

Last week perhaps? Did it make you feel good? Superior? Please, tell us what it's like?

I told you what it's like. It's right up there in that long post you reacted to. I wouldn't even know what it's like these days, can't even remember where one got the PMDG 737 back in the FS9 days as I don't think that filesharing sites where a thing back then, or maybe Napster was already invented? It was long ago I don't remember.

Back in the C64 days some kid you know has a set of floppy disks full of "cracked" games. And those circulate at school. 

None of those kids would have bought any of these, there were not even stores avalaible who had them back then. Didn't change much in later days. I was more or less the only one in my class who actually bought games or movies on VHS.

Nontheless I never felt any guilt about piracy. It wasn't even a crime for many decades until the bean counters started making their wrong projections about fictional lost sales and pushed legislators to make it a crime. (It became illegal in 2003 in Germany as far as I recall)

Edited October 6, 2025Oct 6 by Farlis

19 minutes ago, Farlis said:

Of course you would, because it is a copyright violation. Still not theft.

Yes it is. Ask you lawyer !

8 minutes ago, Farlis said:

Nontheless I never felt any guilt about piracy. It wasn't even a crime for many decades until the bean counters started making their wrong projections about fictional lost sales and pushed legislators to make it a crime.

So if I leave my old, beat up lawn mower in my back yard, unused in over one year but still functional, will you take it?  Not a crime, right?  Obviously forgotten and unused. Careful, your answer will reveal your soul.

-B

PS. Avsim used to enforce rules against discussions that excuse or glorify piracy.  No more I guess.  Like the rest of this crazy world rules are now for fools?

Edited October 6, 2025Oct 6 by btacon

5 minutes ago, btacon said:

So if I leave my old, beat up lawn mower in my back yard, unused in over one year but still functional, will you take it?  Not a crime, right?  Obviously forgotten and unused. Careful, your answer will reveal your soul.

-B

I think we already established that we are talking immaterial goods. Software. Not a piece of machinery or furniture that you pick up and take and that is gone once you have taken it.

Software does not vanish when you take it without paying.

@Farlis, you’re very close to getting a ban with what you’ve admitted to.

Piracy is theft. Consider very carefully what you next post. I’ll be consulting forum staff about your posts.

As a developer and someone who talks to other developers in the game industry – piracy 100% affects sales. It's not 1:1 to downloads, that's true. But if even just 1% of like 1000 downloads on a torrent could have been a sale, that's money out of a devs pocket especially for indies on stretched budgets.

I think people tend to make all sorts of arguments to condone crappy behaviour as some sort of a moral stance. The reality is hey, believe whatever you want but don't pretend like it's anything other than getting stuff for free.

I saw it happen with ini and the A350 as well. There were all sorts of posts justifying pirating it because the release was so bad, like they deserve it because of it which is just bad logic.

20 minutes ago, btacon said:

PS. Avsim used to enforce rules against discussions that excuse or glorify piracy.  No more I guess.  Like the rest of this crazy world rules are now for fools?

The post in question has been brought to our attention. Don’t be so hasty to criticise.

17 minutes ago, Farlis said:

Software does not vanish when you take it without paying.

mind boggling...    You know there are multiple types of theft right including property theft AND intellectual property theft the latter of which you are showing ZERO of in this conversation.  Truly mind blowing.  

Edited October 6, 2025Oct 6 by psolk

3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Farlis, you’re very close to getting a ban with what you’ve admitted to.

Piracy is theft. Consider very carefully what you next post. I’ll be consulting forum staff about your posts.

Well, I was making a point. I don't feel any regret on those days. I was younger had little money and I grew up in the time before the internet made it even easier to share software. It was just the thing people did.

I will certainly not prostrate myself just so that some people can feel better for themselves. 

I stopped doing it years ago when I started working full time, but I did it before that and I don't regret it, because it is what most people around me did as well.

Piracy is a reality, in fact I had kind of assumed that it had stopped being a factor in recent years and IniBuilds is the first developer in a long time that cites piracy as a reason for a business move. Which kind of caught me off guard because I obviously falsely assumed people had moved on from those days.