2 hours ago, BrammyH said:

That said, as much as I was anti them putting it on the MP, with the streaming component of the MP in 2020 I am actually thinking of buying more from there.

I think the marketplace (in it's current and unchanged form since the beginning) is not good. I did buy from it, but you don't get any invoice of the product you bought, just "Xbox credits". I'm dependant on my MS account, so if something goes wrong with it, so will every purchase with it. Slow updates are the third problem.

These things are fixable, maybe MS will improve it. But the one example, which will never make me buy marketplace addons, is exactly the encryption to "prevent piracy". The problem is more apparent with scenery. Many scenery developers for example still like to include static airplanes, for whatever reason and no option to exclude it. When I buy stuff outside of the marketplace, I have access to the files and can fix stuff, even without configurators. This is not possible when I buy from the marketplace (I was already burnt by this). Sure, there are people who don't care and are happy with everything stock, but if a possiblity exists to buy stuff from somewhere else, I will prefer that.

Regarding piracy: I think Fenix is a good example. They seem to have a working (or hard to come by) protection and a extremely fair price for an amazing product. iniBuilds releases an addon almost double the price of it, advertising it at "ultimate airliner experience", which it wasn't. I guess if they had a better pricing and be more honest with the capability of the plane, they had less of a problem - but that's pure speculation of course.

One advantage of the Marketplace: I don't know if this will also work for the A340, but MP offers the possibility to test an add-on without buying it for the full price. This is something which I really like, but it does not outweigh the disadvantages for me (yet).

Edited October 6, 2025Oct 6 by roesti

Just saw a post from INI on instagram that liveries are available for preloading in the INI Manager, maybe a good sign that we’ll see a release tomorrow.

31 minutes ago, roesti said:

Slow updates are the third problem.

Slow updates haven't been an issue for a while now.

Liveries available on the iniBuilds Marketplace.  My guess is tomorrow launch, bugs and all! (No, I’m not an ini hater.  I have most if not all of their planes and a large majority of their sceneries, but they love to release “highly updatable” products LoL

YMMV, TANSTAAFL

-B

Edited October 6, 2025Oct 6 by btacon

FWIW, this is what they posted recently on the marketplace topic (per someone quoting iniBuilds on reddit):
 

“We appreciate the feedback and understand that some of you prefer purchasing products outside of the Marketplace.

For the A340, we’ve chosen to launch exclusively on the Microsoft Marketplace at this time. This decision is primarily driven by the need to protect our work against piracy, as the Marketplace offers the most robust safeguards currently available for high-value, complex aircraft projects.

We’ve experienced significant losses from piracy on recent releases, and ensuring the sustainability of our team and future developments is a top priority.

The update cycle is quick, as we have experienced in recent test builds, that if we submit on a Thursday its released the following Tuesday for example.

We have a patch update already planned for submission on release day so we do not see this being an issue.

Thank you for your support and understanding.”
 

This is maybe a reason (not the reason) why I may give MSFS2024 another chance. I love a better quality (sorry LVFR) old style A340-300 with CRT style displays. Because won't be a MSFS version, right?

6 hours ago, btacon said:

a350ish?

Pfff. Overpriced slosh that was. That's certainly a price I will not pay again for an IniProduct. That lesson I learned. PMDG level pricing with Aerosoft level fidelity (at least at release).

Drop it down to 49 and we're talking.

1 hour ago, lwt1971 said:

We’ve experienced significant losses from piracy on recent releases,

The usual fallacy of software developers. They see how often one of their products is pirated and assume if they stop this altogether those items would then instead show up on their sales. 

They won't.

People who pirate usually either never buy, or won't buy at the price tag a developer has set. One can very much assume that the high price of the A350 contributed to that.

So the most effective way to piracy is not anti-piracy measures, it is finding the sweet spot for your prices.

I'm old enough to have lived through the C64 and Amiga 500 period as a child and of course we only pirated games back then and never bought any.

The first game I bought from my own money was "The secret of Monkey Island". My friends thought I was nuts that I was spending 100 bucks on a game. "You BUY games?!"

But piracy continued through my student years. You pirate what you can't afford but want to play nontheless. Like the PMDG 737 in the FS9 days or the 120€ Switzerland Professional. Both were totally out of my budget back then.

That's why people pirate. If you make it more difficult they will not suddenly decide to spend the money they don't have and suddenly the sales will go up.

I stopped pirating because my budget raised so far over the years that I don't have to think about what can I afford and not because anti-piracy measures became too much of a hassle to bother with pirating.

 

So IniBuilds in my opinion is on the wrong track with this step.

In the end a good product may even lead to someone who pirated it, to go with buying something from the same developer later.

Going back to the PMDG 737 for FS9, that was definately the case for me. Back then paying that much for a single aircraft add on was not only out of my budget it was also out of the question for me to pay more for an add on than the base sim had cost me.

Word of mouth was one thing, but I couldn't imagine any aircraft being worth that kind of money. Until I pirated the 737 and flew it extensively. So when the 747 came along I knew that PMDG did do first rate products and so I saved up and bought the 747 back then and bought all PMDG products from then on, except the B1900 and the DC-3. If I hadn't pirated the 737 at first that might never had happened.

 

Or look at what happened with Game of Thrones on HBO. The most pirated show ever. And created a huge word of mouth.

Could have HBO cracked down on filesharing? Maybe, but what good would that have done? 

It's dissappointing that IniBuilds are so shortsighted and as a result make the process of buying a product of theirs only more inconvenient.

 

I will definately wait until the marketplace exclusivity is over.

 

Edited October 6, 2025Oct 6 by Farlis

3 hours ago, Lucky38i said:

I said I doubt ini will outright say what it is.

They did, you just don't believe it.

22 minutes ago, Farlis said:

Pfff. Overpriced slosh that was.

Drop it down to 49 and we're talking.

We won't know the price until release, but they've said it will be cheaper than the A350

Was hoping to see an Air Canada livery but no dice...hopefully this one comes with a paintkit.

42 minutes ago, Farlis said:

Pfff. Overpriced slosh that was. That's certainly a price I will not pay again for an IniProduct. That lesson I learned. PMDG level pricing with Aerosoft level fidelity (at least at release).

Drop it down to 49 and we're talking.

The usual fallacy of software developers. They see how often one of their products is stolen and assume if they stop this altogether those items would then instead show up on their sales. 

They won't.

People who steal usually either never buy, or won't buy at the price tag a developer has set. One can very much assume that the high price of the A350 contributed to that.

So the most effective way to steal is not anti-theft measures, it is finding the sweet spot for your prices.

I'm old enough to have lived through the C64 and Amiga 500 period as a child and of course we only stole games back then and never bought any.

The first game I bought from my own money was "The secret of Monkey Island". My friends thought I was nuts that I was spending 100 bucks on a game. "You BUY games?!"

But theft continued through my student years. You steal what you can't afford but want to play nontheless. Like the PMDG 737 in the FS9 days or the 120€ Switzerland Professional. Both were totally out of my budget back then.

That's why people steal. If you make it more difficult they will not suddenly decide to spend the money they don't have and suddenly the sales will go up.

I stopped stealing because my budget raised so far over the years that I don't have to think about what can I afford and not because anti-theft measures became too much of a hassle to bother with stealing.

 

So IniBuilds in my opinion is on the wrong track with this step.

In the end a good product may even lead to someone who stole it, to go with buying something from the same developer later.

Going back to the PMDG 737 for FS9, that was definately the case for me. Back then paying that much for a single aircraft add on was not only out of my budget it was also out of the question for me to pay more for an add on than the base sim had cost me.

Word of mouth was one thing, but I couldn't imagine any aircraft being worth that kind of money. Until I stole the 737 and flew it extensively. So when the 747 came along I knew that PMDG did do first rate products and so I saved up and bought the 747 back then and bought all PMDG products from then on, except the B1900 and the DC-3. If I hadn't stolen the 737 at first that might never had happened.

 

Or look at what happened with Game of Thrones on HBO. The most stolen show ever. And created a huge word of mouth.

Could have HBO cracked down on filesharing? Maybe, but what good would that have done? 

It's dissappointing that IniBuilds are so shortsighted and as a result make the process of buying a product of theirs only more inconvenient.

 

I will definately wait until the marketplace exclusivity is over.

 

Hope this edit helps you understand what you actually did....

10 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Hope this edit helps you understand what you actually did....

I disagree. How can you "steal" digital goods? It's an illegal copy, against the law - no discussion. But it's not stealing. And while I agree with Farlis (piracy protection mainly hurts customers who spend their money instead of the "pirates"), the discussion should return to iniBuilds and the A340. Editing posts in this way just brings an unneccessary emotional component. Piracy is illegal and not encouraged, but in no way you can "steal" virtual / digital stuff. If somebody makes an unauthorized copy of something, it doesn't vanish from the hard disk of somebody else. I think this is the fallacy he wanted to point out (trying to prevent piracy doesn't lead to more sales automatically).

Edited October 6, 2025Oct 6 by roesti

1 hour ago, Farlis said:

Drop it down to 49 and we're talking.

USD, not GBP, of course 😛

I'm thinking of something similar to the A300. Hopefully, it's the 2020/compatible one (35 GBP/47 USD) and not the Premium one (45 GBP/61 USD)🙏🏼

6 hours ago, Krakin said:

I noticed in the comments section iniBuilds saying they chose to go exclusively with the marketplace

I don't like this, but because of tax reasons: my bank charges me VAT for any Steam purchase. For a purchase at any other store (including iniBuilds), nothing. I guess I'll join the crowd pestering ini for a store release 🙃

4 hours ago, brinx said:

Experimenting with marketplace first will probably allow them to get a better sense of the impact

Can they? We can't even get a proof of purchase!

Edited October 6, 2025Oct 6 by Luis Hernandez

12 minutes ago, Luis Hernandez said:

USD, not GBP, of course

Or EUR. Something in that ballpark.

30 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Hope this edit helps you understand what you actually did....

I feel so much remorse now... NOT.

 

Software piracy is not theft. You can't steal immaterial goods.

And believe me I've seen all the unskippable adverts of the film industry against piracy with which they pestered everybody on the DVD's they BOUGHT.

 

If I were to break into a software developer's computer and took their work with me before it is released, not leaving them any backups anywhere THAT would be theft.

Edited October 6, 2025Oct 6 by Farlis