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Guest zzmikezz

$2M SUIT VS. JETBLUE

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The customers pay a fee for a reason, and it's not to be forced to sit on a toilet for a few hours. I hope he gets his $2 million.

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Answering my own question..I wouldn't have done that. When this man was allowed to board as a bona fide passenger, he was entitled to a seat, regardless if he was a paying passenger or a pass rider. Very poor judgement by the Captain.--Roger

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I hope the man gets 50m!! More good customer service by a US airline!! keith:-beerchug

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Although I agree that he was treated badly and should be compensated for that. As a non-American I never understand these exaggerated numbers though. $2M seems a over the top to me.Cheers,Allard.

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"As a non-American I never understand these exaggerated numbers though. $2M seems a over the top to me."As an American I don't understand it either. $2 Million? But the incident itself has me amazed. I read the article and thought "This must be a belated April Fools'" joke. I cannot fathom a captain who would force a paying passenger to sit in an aircraft lavatory--doesn't matter if the passenger was standby. I've seen flight attendants sit in their jumpseats--when they are sitting, throughout a flight. The more amazing issue of course is the lack of safety restraints in an aircraft lavatory. The captain involved would be threatening the safety of a passenger by forcing the passenger to fly in the lavatory. Still nothing would convince me the passenger should be awarded $2 Million, not when victims of auto crashes and medical malpractice get far less. Somewhere there is an attorney trying to make a name for him/herself. But I believe if the story proves to be exactly as written, that the pilot involved should be pulled from duty permanently and his license taken away. Jetblue should pay a hefty fine as well--the lesson being that no one, not even the pilot, should threaten the safety of a passenger under color of authority.Regards,John

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NONE of that mattters to begin with...rofl.ANY PERSON and/or FLIGHT CREW MEMBER -- MUST -- I repeat -- MUST be provided with seat belts and/or harnesses under FAR's and...I 'think' also under actual law (CFR's for the US).It's not a matter of customer service what so ever.:-roll

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>I have problem with this whole story how much of it>believable. Under what exact conditions this passenger was>allowed to board aircraft if clearly there was no seat for>him? We are missing some important piece of this puzzle ...>>Michael J.The passenger was a buddy pass rider. He had a seat. From the stories, the captain made him give up the coach seat midflight to a nonrevving fa that had been in a jumpseat.Nonrevs are often treated like freeloaders by some working crews. But what this captain did sounds a little beyond. I wonder about the relationship between the captain and that fa that got the pax's seat. There is probably more to this story.

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>I wonder about the relationship between the captain and that fa>that got the pax's seat. There is probably more to this>story.I was thinking the same thing, somethings going on there. I hope this guy gets his cash, what the captain did is pretty rediculous.

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IIUC normally the non-rev FA would have been given the seat by the gate agent. The Capt agreed (it is in his discretion) to allow the FA to jump seat, opening up the seat for the buddy pass pax. So the Capt was doing this guy a pretty big favor, IMHO. Was it right to put the guy in the can? No. But I wouldn't give the guy a nickel. He has no damages. I would tell buddy pass guy next time buy a ticket . scott s..

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>IIUC normally the non-rev FA would have been given the seat>by the gate agent. The Capt agreed (it is in his discretion)>to allow the FA to jump seat, opening up the seat for the>buddy pass pax. So the Capt was doing this guy a pretty big>favor, IMHO. Was it right to put the guy in the can? No. But>I wouldn't give the guy a nickel. He has no damages. I would>tell buddy pass guy next time buy a ticket . >>scott s.>.>I agree, the guy shouldn't get much if anything, however the Captain should, and probably will be sanctioned by the FAA, for a flagrant violation of safety regs, if it actually happened as reported. I still have a hard time believing a Captain would risk jeopardizing his career, and possibly losing his ticket, over something like this, but stranger things have happened before!!

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I am curious as to what is meant by "buddy pass". Originally I had read he was a standby passenger.Regards,John

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I'll explain in my understanding since I had this benefit the last 4 years when my daughter worked for the airlines.As an employee she was allowed to put certain family members on a "list". We were able to fly "standby" as non revenue passengers at any time. She was also allowed a certain limited number of "buddy passes" per year-passes she could give to friends that were not family members on this list. My son would have to use a "buddy pass" as he was not allowed on the list (parents). There are only a limited number of buddy passes good for the year.If I recall-there is an order... Pilots,crew can bump non revenue passengers. Then the seniority comes into effect-someone shows up with higher seniority and you are bumped. At the bottom is buddy passes. When we started with low seniority we were always bumped-after a couple years we were bumping others.Sometimes it worked out well-but with the full airplanes now more often than not it did not for us. When I came back from Hong Kong this way it took me 5 days of flying all over the place (though I did get business class). It was quite an adventure and I decided that ultimately I would rather buy a ticket. One time in Phoenix we were bumped not due to empty seats but due to weight restrictions. At that point one of the non rev passengers got very mad, started yelling etc. which surprised me greatly as anyone travelling this way knows gettting bumped is a part of the deal-and how can you complain about almost free? I would have liked to put that passenger in the toilet-but I wasn't the pilot... :-lolhttp://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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The captain should be fined or fired because he landed with a passenger sitting on a non-approved seat with no seatbelt. As another poster stated, it is illegal for an airplane to taxi, take off and land without all passengers wearing their seatbelt.

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The typical order for standby goes like this at most airlines: 1.Revenue Standby 2.Nonrevenue Standby 3.JumpseatersRevenue standby are regular paying customers who may have showed up earlier than their booked flight and want to get on this flight, or a paying customer who got bumped from a previous flight who is on standby for this one.Nonrevenue standby are the employees and related people who have booked themselves on standby using the various pass classifications which they are entitled to. The highest priority would be the ones using the vacation passes, then the regular personal passes, and then finally the buddy passes that are given to friends or acquaintances of employees. Only employees and their family qualify to use the vacation or regular passes. Within each of those classifications, people are then ranked by their seniority.Finally, jumpseaters are boarded after all rev and nonrev standby passriders have been seated. Only active crew are allowed to list as jumpseaters. The jumpseaters take whatever cabin seat remains or if no cabin seat remains, then any available jumpseat, in the cockpit for the pilots or in the galley for FAs.What most likely transpired was that the FA had originally listed using a vacation or personal pass. With that pass, she was above the buddy pass rider on the priority and ultimately was assigned the last available seat. However, since the jumpseat was still available and the FA was eligible to take that, someone must have gotten the bright idea to ask her to sit in the jumpseat instead and free the cabin seat for the buddy pass man, enabling him to get on board.Where it went from there, is history.

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Yeah, but you can't break the law or bust a reg to do it...wouldn't you agree? I'm pretty sure you would.EVERYONE on board that aircraft while that aircraft is in motion MUST be provided with the appropriate safety equipment...first and foremost.This is taught at the PPL level. It's doesn't matter whether or not the flight was for revenue or not and it doesn't matter whether the person or persons were paying passengers.Whether or not this person is entitled to compensation due to comfort is another story, but he probably has a pretty good safety case even if the flight was conducted in 'clean air' the whole way.

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I started this post, so may I digress a moment and tell you about pass riding in the "good old days." This was before airline deregulation. Some time during the '60s I worked for Eastern Airlines in Miami as a radio mechanic. I was there for about 2-years before I was layed-off. Some said it was the first time Eastern ever had a layoff of mechanics.:-( As I recall, this was their non-rev pass system. The employees and their immediate family, husband or wife and children, and the employee's parents were eligible. It followed the usual priority/standby rules, but the planes were rarely full. Each person could fly one way to anywhere on the Eastern system. Miami to Jacksonville or Miami to New York; it would be the same. Now here's the good part, the fee: $3 for Couch or $5 for 1st Class! A round trip would be $6 or $10. We always thought the extra $2 was for the complimentary champaign served in 1st Class. :-beerchug--Roger

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>As another poster stated, it is illegal for an airplane to taxi, >take off and land without all passengers wearing their seatbelt.Blanket statements can sometimes be misleading.I can remember when my family flew, our children under 2 yrs old flew for free - but they were not given a seat. We sat with them on our laps and held in our arms.Of course things may have changed over the last 40 years. America also may not allow this. :-)Qantas hold the record for the most passengers aboard a B747. During the evacuation of Darwin in 1974 after cyclone Tracy flattened the city. A B747 took off with an adult in every seat and almost all had a toddler sitting on their lap. Forget the actual figure. Roger

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>another poster stated, it is illegal for an airplane to taxi,>take off and land without all passengers wearing their>seatbelt.Nowhere in the story there is a hint that the passenger in question did not wear the seat belt during those phases of flight. If I read the story and then Kevin's explanation how the seats were swapped - he was only deprived of the seat belt during the cruise portion (which can be illegal too).Michael J.http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9320/apollo17vf7.jpg

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Wow! This hits home as an ex airline pilot!!!Let's set the ground rules. It is against FARs for a non crew member to occupy a jumpseat (flight attendant or flight deck). The crew member can be from the airline, or, a pilot from another airline with proper credentials for a flight deck jumpseat, but a flight attendant from another airline cannot ususally occupy a flight attendant jumpseat. A flight attendant cannot get a flight deck jumpseat and a pilot cannot get a flight attendant jumpseat.Airline Non-Revenue (non-rev) Pass priority is governed by: 1. Employee Pass (boarding priority according to the employee's hire date called "seniority"), 2. Family Pass (For immedate family members - husband, wife, children, parents OR in-law but NOT both, employee parents and in-laws usually alternate every year - boarding priority according to the employee seniority) 3. Buddy pass (A pass which employee can give (or sell) to friends or extended family, only a limited amount are given per calender year and the fare is based on 10% of the highest Y Fare - boarding priority according to the employee who gave you the buddy pass' seniority), ID-90 (another airline employee, or authorized pass rider - for instance a FEDEX pilot can ID-90 on Continental or a United Flight Attendant can ID-90 on Delta, or American Airlines pilot's wife can ID-90 on Northwest, etc - Fare is based at 10% of the highest Y fare - boarding priority by check-in time after all employee, family, buddypasses have been cleared).Now, if the flight attendant in question was able to receive a jumpseat pass then that is her seat for the DURATION of the flight. Many flight attendants will take the jumpseat pass first on a full flight (to ensure they at least get on the airplane) and hope that a passenger seat opens up after boarding is completed and he/she can take that EMPTY seat and be more comfortable. However, if a passenger seat does not open up, then they are stuck on the jumpseat. The same goes for pilots with a flight deck jumpseat. As a matter of fact when we had a pilot jumpseating we were praying that a passenger seat opened up to get him the heck out of the flightdeck (unless he was a friend to one of us).Once the flight attendant gave up her passenger seat to sit on the jumpseat, the pass rider is given a passenger seat and unless the pass rider is removed from that seat by the gate agent before the door closes, that is his/her seat for the rest of the flight. Period.Obviously the flight was full, the flight attendant was stuck on the jumpseat and the pass rider was stretched out in a nice comfly passenger seat. At that point, its too bad.What the captain did is 1000% wrong first of all regardless of the pass status of the person he made sit in the bathroom. Second, ALL passengers MUST have a functioning seatbelt. Assuming the bathroom did not have one and the captain engaged the fasten seatbelt sign at anytime during the flight, or for landing, the passenger sitting in the lavatory is now a violation of FARs at the COMMAND of the captain!Additionally, all lavatories should be locked by the flight attendants prior to takeoff and touchdown (you can do this with a pen because on the "occupied" sign there is a hole that allowes you to slide the lock from the outside). NO ONE is allowed in the lavatories for takeoff and landing!Now, understand that buddy pass and ID-90 riders are considered the lowest priority scum-of-the earth on an airplane. This was illustrated at my airline when I would insist that my pass users ask the flight attendants "if there was enough food" before taking a meal. However!Since FARs state that the Pilot In Command is the FINAL authority on an aircraft he/she is responsible for his/her directions to passengers and / or crew.I cannot BELIEVE that a captain made a pass rider do this. It breaks many FARs AND is a total humiliation of the person to whom it was directed. There is no defense. The flight attendant should NOT have taken the pass rider's seat (FIRE HER), and the captain should not have commanded the pass rider to sit in the lavatory (FIRE HIM). I hope this guy get's every cent out of his law suit and then some.

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After Jetblue ( a joke of an airline, BTW ) forks over the $2mil they better fire that sorry excuse of a "captain" since he busted numerous FAR's.

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Absolutely ridiculous. If this is indeed true, the pilot should face punitive action by both the airline and the FAA, and the passenger should at the very least be refunded the cost of his ticket. $2 million, though, is another story. Frankly, I don't see how this guy suffered any compensible damages. I don't buy the pain and suffering argument for one second. People have become way too quick to sue these days, and while this was an unfortunate incident, I'm not convinced that this guy should be awarded damages through litigation.

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