I'm pretty sure this will happen:FS for XBOX 360 with Live support.Goals/Mission based "unlocking" new aircrafts and new missions.Realism dialed WAY WAY back.In other words, a failure in the making, but will probably sell more than FSX did. It seems the sellable market must have a purpose that consists of blowing things up, primitive sequences to obtain something to blow things up, enough cheats so that anyone can blow everything up.Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the financial model that seems to sell and sell enough to actually make money from the developer efforts.Other than WoW (world of warcraft), most PC games just don't sell regardless of content/goals/etc.Sorry to be a downer, but that's where the big money is at. As much as I would love to see subscription based, it will not happen. Just as much as I would love to see realism dialup a few notches, it will not happen. It just doesn't sell well.

I'm pretty sure this will happen:FS for XBOX 360 with Live support.Goals/Mission based "unlocking" new aircrafts and new missions.Realism dialed WAY WAY back.In other words, a failure in the making, but will probably sell more than FSX did. It seems the sellable market must have a purpose that consists of blowing things up, primitive sequences to obtain something to blow things up, enough cheats so that anyone can blow everything up.Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the financial model that seems to sell and sell enough to actually make money from the developer efforts.Other than WoW (world of warcraft), most PC games just don't sell regardless of content/goals/etc.Sorry to be a downer, but that's where the big money is at. As much as I would love to see subscription based, it will not happen. Just as much as I would love to see realism dialup a few notches, it will not happen. It just doesn't sell well.

SPEEDBIRD! stop going around saying realism will be a lot less than the previous versions. Microsoft knows what its doing and they know that if they change too much with the aerodynamics and realism of the game they will lose lots of the user base. I think what they are doing is making a simulator that will be somewhat similar to the old ones. Microsoft CANNOT certify every single add-on simply because of the sheer amount and also how much it costs for developers to get certified by Microsoft. I think based on other PC Live games, they will not have some kind of marketplace because this a PC games and PC games are made to extended any way possible. The user will always find a way to add a product using the simobjects directory or something like that. So basically I'm thinking they will use LIVE for the friends list, messaging, sessions, or something like that. The only problem with LIVE is the sessions might be a bit harder to find, so they might just make the online service like other games. I would even be 1,000 times happier right now if they could fix the gamespy issue for FSX so it doesn't give me the stupid "gamespy has disconnected" crap.To get on the technological side. I think Microsoft could heavily be considering making a 64-bit version of FSX. The only thing is the development tools have to support 64bit as well as 32bit. 64-bit will help tremendously though because the processor can store more registers at once and it also make using those powerful AMD and Intels to their fullest extent. This is why we have that we have those 2 or more MB of L3 cache on the processors today. If you have crysis play they 32 bit version and see how long it takes to load textures, then compare it to the 64 bit version witch loads textures much faster and reduces frame drops (stutters). The 64 bit of crysis takes advantage of how many registers your processor can store at once. Also remember 32-bit programs and OSes can only address 2 to 32 power amount of memory (roughly 4.2GBs) but some of the memory is never seen by the OS. This is due to PCI and PCIE reserving memory for the bus and also for other reasons. So with x32 and the PC changes we are having today 6GBs, 8GBs, etc of memory becoming mainstream, we are reaching a limit. To overcome this we need a 64bit version if they want to think about the future. Many PCs today ship with a 64bit version but the user doesn't notice it. Remember I said before in this post that a 32 bit processor can only address 2^32 (2 to the 32nd power) amount of memory, which is 4.2GB @ its fullest. I know someone will say "We'll what about PAE". We can overcome that 4GB limit with PAE (Physical Address Extension), but its inefficient and slow, and it will only cause more problems and crashes. Releasing a new flight sim in both 32 bit and 64 bit is a good choice. Think of how much memory a 64 bit processor can address (2^64) that is 16.8 MILLION terabytes of memory, and will be enough for a very long time. (There will always be a limitation somewhere, so planet Earth will have 128 bit processors sometime, and we already do). Right now, not many processors are physically 64 bit. Most processors can physically recognize 40-48 bits of the 64 bit virtual address so most processors today can access a 2 ^48 (unformatted) amount of memory which is still an amazing amount of memory. So flight sim in 64 bit means takingadvantage that 6, 8, and even 16GBs of memory we have today.So so far i have talked about LIVE and 4 bit being possible. If the next version of flight simulator uses Games for Windows - LIVE, again it might be modified for just online matchmaking and hosting. Also for the friends list, messaging and voice chat, etc. I seriously kind of doubt that it will use LIVE because something just came back to me right now and I realize the main LIVE concept was not designed for a game as advanced as Flight Simulator. So I think if Microsoft wants to be smart, they should use gamespy AGAIN, yes I said gamespy, and they should remove that limit for how many sessions and people can be in one lobby. Every other game that I have works perfectly with gamespy and does not have any of those problems. Microsoft should also consider making a 64bit version in addition to the 32 bit version (Which will risk making old add ons incompatible).Here is my post on why Microsoft may use Virtual Earth because I am too tired to write anymore right now.http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?s=&...t&p=1547912http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?s=&...t&p=1547306http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?s=&...t&p=1547724

I'm pretty sure this will happen:FS for XBOX 360 with Live support.

What is the evidence to support your guess?Based on what has been made public thus far, the evidence suggests thatthe planned program will not be an XBox title.NOT.

What is the evidence to support your guess?Based on what has been made public thus far, the evidence suggests thatthe planned program will not be an XBox title.NOT.

Don't listen to him. He just likes to be stubborn and think Microsoft is electronic arts (EA).

"Microsoft knows what its doing and they know that if they change too much with the aerodynamics and realism of the game they will lose lots of the user base"Fsx sold over a million copies in the US alone last year.The user base of avsim if I recall is around 45,000-and that is worldwide. We know the people that come to avsim are quite serious about simming, regardless of the sim or type of simming they prefer to simulate.However, I would submit that the vast majority that comprise the other 900k+ users (in only the US-wordwide imagine how many) that are the "user base" of flight sim are not "serious", do not know or care what p factor is, an approach plate is, or what the difference is between TAS and Groundspeed. They can be amazed at the scenery and basic sensation of flying-much like the Disney ride that does the same-but that is the limit of their interest-and probably for a limited time period.So I would predict that the overall realism of the game will suffer-unless a clear avenue is there for 3rd party developers. After all those pesky users that require realistic panels, instruments, flight models, weather, systems etc. are a small minority considering the general "user base". These pesky features take an inordinate amount of time to implement and reduce the frequency of release and potential maximum profit capability for the coorporation.In my perspective-even 25 years ago companies tended to do things more for ideals e.g.make the best flight sim one can , take great pleasure from this, and hopefully great profits because of this excellence.Now days companies do things for spreadsheets and profits...part of my view of where and why the world is headed where it is.

"Microsoft knows what its doing and they know that if they change too much with the aerodynamics and realism of the game they will lose lots of the user base"Fsx sold over a million copies in the US alone last year.The user base of avsim if I recall is around 45,000-and that is worldwide. We know the people that come to avsim are quite serious about simming, regardless of the sim or type of simming they prefer to simulate.However, I would submit that the vast majority that comprise the other 900k+ users (in only the US-wordwide imagine how many) that are the "user base" of flight sim are not "serious", do not know or care what p factor is, an approach plate is, or what the difference is between TAS and Groundspeed. They can be amazed at the scenery and basic sensation of flying-much like the Disney ride that does the same-but that is the limit of their interest-and probably for a limited time period.So I would predict that the overall realism of the game will suffer-unless a clear avenue is there for 3rd party developers. After all those pesky users that require realistic panels, instruments, flight models, weather, systems etc. are a small minority considering the general "user base". These pesky features take an inordinate amount of time to implement and reduce the frequency of release and potential maximum profit capability for the coorporation.In my perspective-even 25 years ago companies tended to do things more for ideals e.g.make the best flight sim one can , take great pleasure from this, and hopefully great profits because of this excellence.Now days companies do things for spreadsheets and profits...part of my view of where and why the world is headed where it is.

A cold shower of reality. I fully agree. AVSIM users tend to be market myopic. Also agree that any "attractive" product needs 3rd party support to meet the needs of people who demand reality in their purchase.

Of course, it

May be this is not all that relevant - but here it is:There's a lot of discussion about the "FS franchise" - and whether it will continue the way it was i.e. PC based with tremendous 3rd party support or the Xbox no brainer arcade style route with a potential for on line linkage whether it be terrain imagery and/or 3D urban models with questionable or at best unclear 3rd party role. Heck, we don't have a clue! If I was MS, I'd use this attention from MSFS simmers and start whetting their appetites and gather opinions. Sort of Edison tactic of creating an interest/hype in a product before there is any product!My guess would be that like the Windows 7, it will come in various grades Basic/Mid Level/Deluxe/Pro, etc. and on different platforms - PC, Xbox in addition to a future iPhone/Zune type mini app. Perhaps even Linux and Apple versions!I think it would be a grave mis-step on MS's part to not leverage the Virtual Earth resources into whatever future FS or other apps/games it develops. MegaScenery comes to mind. MS apparently was sleeping (ok, may be just napping!) at the wheels when X-plane started making serious headway in the past couple of years - not to mention the somewhat recent success X-plane enjoys with the iPhone offerings. Xplane is sort of where the West was when the Soviet empire collapsed - can it see a clear way forward? And, can MS revive the "old FS franchise"? To MS, this has to hurt. A 4 or 6-man team trudging on traditional MS turf as well as taking on a 100+ man team. Did MS blink?Will there be a new product available by Thanksgiving or the coming shopping season? The stakes are very high and the race is on!

Just thinking about what Geof said about making FS easier to use.I think we can distinguish between

I've been too busy lately flying A2A'S wonderful 377 around the world and trying to recover some lost aircraft when my motherboard went belly up to notice what Microsoft has been up to. I guess from reading this thread, they have decided to eliminate the Aces team. I don't know if that means they are getting away from the concept of serious flight simulation for adults and going totally the 'game' route for teeny-boppers or what. I only hope that whatever happens, there will be room for someone to develop great airplanes like Aeroworx wonderful FS9 King Air and the 377 Statocrusier for FSX and the PMDG jets. No unrealistic kiddy arcade air races please! That should be seperate and apart from serious simulation

Richard

Greetings to allWhy does everybody have to depend on Microsoft for Flight Simming??????There are other outfits who would glady employ the former Aces Team and if one can get the entire team together and start from scratch and make new codes to handle the new computers today and make the proper sceneries and the effects and most of all planes that work properly just like the real world, it would be a super bonanza!!!!!! Remember the Ace team already know the codes to the game itself. Huh do you need microsoft , heck noWe need the aces team. Understand.As a matter of fact the layoff of the Aces Team is just the perfect prescription for all of us simmers to get the Aces team to work for US. The Aces team is more valuable to us simmers than Microsoft will ever be. They are the HOLY GRAIL of Flight and Train Simming.Just to give you an example how bad Microsoft is doing. Their recent release of Internet Explorer 8 has already been compromised and now they are already issuing security patches. Their Vista is a total flop. The FSX was merely a slight upgrade from FS 9, most of it copied over. Any Aces team member will tell you this without hesitation. Several attempts on their live gaming became a flop. Support for FS 9 and FSX is going down the tubes. Then Microsoft wants to introduce another version which is like a cloud internet of which they can watch you everything your doing and report any illegal activity you do on your computer. They already have such reporting on the security update by the way and you don't know it.So what else you want. Do we have to have Microsoft???????? You decide OKChanRak

Greetings to allWhy does everybody have to depend on Microsoft for Flight Simming??????There are other outfits who would glady employ the former Aces Team and if one can get the entire team together and start from scratch and make new codes to handle the new computers today and make the proper sceneries and the effects and most of all planes that work properly just like the real world, it would be a super bonanza!!!!!! Remember the Ace team already know the codes to the game itself. Huh do you need microsoft , heck noWe need the aces team. Understand.As a matter of fact the layoff of the Aces Team is just the perfect prescription for all of us simmers to get the Aces team to work for US. The Aces team is more valuable to us simmers than Microsoft will ever be. They are the HOLY GRAIL of Flight and Train Simming.Just to give you an example how bad Microsoft is doing. Their recent release of Internet Explorer 8 has already been compromised and now they are already issuing security patches. Their Vista is a total flop. The FSX was merely a slight upgrade from FS 9, most of it copied over. Any Aces team member will tell you this without hesitation. Several attempts on their live gaming became a flop. Support for FS 9 and FSX is going down the tubes. Then Microsoft wants to introduce another version which is like a cloud internet of which they can watch you everything your doing and report any illegal activity you do on your computer. They already have such reporting on the security update by the way and you don't know it.So what else you want. Do we have to have Microsoft???????? You decide OKChanRak

Why don't you raise the money and fund ACES to develop a new simulation and reap the benefits of the "super bonanza" yourself?

As an illustration of just how out of touch with reality the above post is, the author seems completely unaware that MS have (re)hired most of the ex-ACES employees to form the new team MS Game Studios have formed... ...and most of those not (re)hired for the above have already found positions elsewhere in MS or other game studios... :(

Why don't you raise the money and fund ACES to develop a new simulation and reap the benefits of the "super bonanza" yourself?

You don't understand it all. The heart or the main gravy of the Flight Sim Game has been let go by Microsoft. I will simply put it another way and make a small prediction here. Microsoft has no intention of furthering the Flight Sim any longer because they made the most obvious move in terminating the Aces Team. They have their sights set on something else which is a whole lot bigger and the potential of grabbing that particular market for income is astronomical, and if they do decide to sort of cater anything for the flight sim community it is going to cost you more than a mere just 60 dollars DVD. I have a feeling I know what they are aiming for and I think they are now putting things together on how to grab their share of the market on it.I don't need to try to educate anyone but if that does not tell you anything then fine, keep thinking Microsoft will restart the Sim again, and when the fatal news is finally announced I just wonder what the flight sim community will then say besides cry and moan and complain. You have to remember the Aces Team consisted of 200 or less people who were designers and programmers of the game itself, and probably had two divisons one for the Train and One for the Sim and maybe another one for the other known games that are in the market. So in comparision to the other thousands of employees Microsoft has, this is just a tiny little small department all by itself and it generated millions of dollars.I mentioned the word US, which means everybody in the sim world. I myself personally would be more than happy to pay 60 bucks a year to be a member and support the Aces team and have them be employed by all of us simmers. Is this too hard to fathom or to understand>>> If this happens we as flight sim members can provide them the input and suggestions to make the game better and the Aces team can work it out for the programming and development and then provide it for us.This is only an idea that I could think of in some way or another to grab the Aces Team because they know the inner workings of the game of which still much of it is a secret and the only people who really truly know how FS 9 and FSX is made is the Aces Team themselves. Ahhh, your vision is quite short indeed. There are other possible options as followsAnother one is I hope that the owner of X-Plane can see and realize the windfall that he can get for the long run if he or she can hire this group of people. No doubt then that X-Plane would and or can become one of the best made flight sim games as a hobby itself can ever be. The combination of the X-Plane developers team and the Ace team together would be really awesome and such team can put all their knowledge and experience together and develop a flight sim game that would blow and I mean blow all the other previous versions combined a mile long.The airlines definitely I think would be looking to get some of the members of the Ace Team for their simulation training. This is how valuable they are to the aviation world.I appreciate your short sightness in making a snappy comment without first giving it a thought of the potential possibilities that are involved between now and the future. Yea, if I can come up with the start up capital I would hire this group myself, and trust me the benefits of having them as the team for this new company myself, I can make the millions instead. What I was aiming for and hoping > if anyone can come up with any other good ideas on how to get the Aces Team for the Flight Sim community. wow, and I get crucified in one sentence from a member who has put out over 2,000 posts and should know better. No offense mgh, but this is the truth. I thank you for correcting me.ChanRak