That's a little of topic, but since we are there: Good luck trying to find people to approve of their ISP bill going up to help fund some of the overpaid talentless wretches that record companies foist upon us these days. :(It's not up to me to bail out some poor little pop act who can only afford one swimming pool to drive their Ferrari into because their one hit wonder got torrented to death. And I seriously doubt most other people, who might never have heard their record, are going to have much sympathy either.If half those acts were actually capable of playing a musical instrument, both they, and the record industry, would have little to worry about where making money is concerned, as it is kind of hard to download an illegal copy of a seat at a gig. The record industry has shot itself up the &@($* on that one, with its policy of promoting easily manufactured rubbish that is incapable of being taken on tour, or for that matter, engendering a following that lasts for more than the 'difficult second album'. I'm all for giving artists the royalties they deserve, and if I ever come across one I like I most certainly do, by buying their CD. But I'll be damned if I'll pay more to my ISP to support the duffers.By the same token, how is such a system going to support developers of FS add-ons? Anbody who is not interested in flight simulators is not going to give a toss whether PMDG stays in business or not. They certainly won't see any reason why they should be expected to fund them. Why should they?Al

With respect to piracy, I think you'll find quite a few add-on developers will list this as a VERY real issue. The tired arguments about quality and price are moot: none of us has a right to borrow, sample or test-drive a title to see if it is up to snuff. It would be great if the developer accommodated that, but you don't have the right. Worse still is the justification of piracy due to substandard product; if it is substandard, then why do you have it? None of the "pro piracy" arguments ever have legs to stand on.Anyone who doubts that the moral and ethical decay of P2P "sharing" has negatively impacted the add-on market is fooling themselves. This software is too difficult to develop for a developer to stand by and watch, as Bryan pointed out, how easily their works are just snatched up. Furthermore, you'll get a vocal crowd howling for customer service when several in this crowd are not customers at all. The friction of piracy is bound to wear some developers out. Sure, sure, we'll never stop piracy, etc. etc. But we're going to live in a lower-quality world as a result. Look at Youtube as an example: there are millions of videos on there and most of them are absolute garbage. The incentive to create high-quality content is diminished in the face of P2P "sharing" such that all we end up sharing is a bunch of junk. A race to the bottom indeed.Societies are adjusting as we speak. In any case, I too see a marked drop in "high quality" add-ons while a good number of average-to-terrible add-ons flourish. Of course, I agree that it is not all piracy, some other possible causes:

• FSX/FS9 split of the fanbase
• The expectation that every add-on should support both FS9 and FSX
• The depressed world-wide economy
• The uncertainty regarding the future of MSFS in light of what happened with ACES
• The possibility that we'll be expected to play the next "flying game" on XBOX720
• The likelihood that the "content pipeline" will be absolutely regulated by MS, who will likely exact a fee
• Diminishing interest

Piracy is caused by lack of morals and ethics. Stealing is stealing, there is no justification.

On the othe hand, simplistic morality is not necessarily good either. ;)In some cases where software is conerned and the no return/refund EUAs, it's debatable who is stealing from whom.

"try before you buy" is already available.We and others who use the Flight One Ecommerce system already have a prepaid "try before you buy" system by offering a no questions asked 30 Day Refund Option.Some seem to think that "try before you buy" means no prepayment while others seem to grasp the prepaid concept as outlined above. :(

Quantumleap's link to an opinion document on piracy is interesting although lacking any references. I did not read it all but it did cover a lot of ground on the issue and touched on the complexities of intellectual property and the file sharing capabilites of the world wide web.

"...lacking any references?" The entire article is liberally sprinkled with ~100 hot-linked references! Simply because the author didn't provide a bulleted list of references at the end of the article may have led you to this erroneous conclusion.Here is a quote from this excellent analysis, which I feel summarizes my own opinion quite eloquently (emphasis mine):

Similarly, when piracy is rampant, both gamers and game companies stand to lose a great deal in the long run; the only people who are laughing all the way to the bank are the owners of piracy sites, and the companies that sell copy protection and DRM.

Here is a quote from this excellent analysis, which I feel summarizes my own opinion quite eloquently (emphasis mine):Similarly, when piracy is rampant, both gamers and game companies stand to lose a great deal in the long run; the only people who are laughing all the way to the bank are the owners of piracy sites, and the companies that sell copy protection and DRM.

Agree. And most legit customers I've ever talked to DETEST copy protection and DRM, but recognize its purpose. A necessary evil in these times, I suppose.

Piracy, doubt that a whole lot. What proof is there of piracy? I have never heard or read about FS developers sueing anyone.

Are you seriously suggesting that the huge lists of torrent downloads would exist if no one was actually using them?Or are you suggesting that it's not "piracy" if the developer doesn't file a civil action?That's like suggesting that a car is only "stolen" if the owner files a police report... :(

Are you seriously suggesting that the huge lists of torrent downloads would exist if no one was actually using them?Or are you suggesting that it's not "piracy" if the developer doesn't file a civil action?That's like suggesting that a car is only "stolen" if the owner files a police report... :(

With all due respect I remember sometime last year when a developer cried 'foul" with regard to piracyand posted a statement in the forums saying as much. They claimed it was why they were closing there doors. Then they actually named the website therefore pointing everyone to the same site they were complaining about.I've been purchasing my add-ons from a site which uses Flight One E-commerce. Last month I purchaseda product, used it and found it didn't fit my needs and was promptly given a refund. That's the way to dobusiness.Craig

I believe that we see here the real damages of piracy. :(

Maybe, maybe not. However I personally don't think piracy has such a big effect. I think the people that pirate are1. Casual simmers who would never purchase an add-on anyway. They just want to look at the cool 3D model and crash into stuff, then go back to playing Crysis.2. People who could not afford to buy it anyway. If all pirated add-ons suddenly vanished off the internet, they would just turn to freeware insteadObviously, there's also a group of people who would purchase the add-on if it wasn't available for free on the net, but I don't think it's the largest group.You can count me into #2 these days, though I've never download payware illegaly. In the FS9 days, I bought add-ons for hundreds of $'s. Today, I always search for a decent freeware alternative before splashing down the money. I find that I can even accept a slightly less realistic plane or scenery if I can find it as freeware.I'm also finding myself purchasing less addons for FSX and more for X-Plane for two reasons: 1. FSX is a "dead end" while X-Plane is constantly being developed. 2. X-Plane addons are much, much cheaper. I can get 4 - 5 decent planes for the price of one FSX add-on. They might not be quite as detailed, but they're no less enjoyable.The current economic situation obviously doesn't help either.

Does each pirated copy of software represent a lost sale ?..................NoI've heard of Aerosoft going after people, but I think most people who pirate a super niche product like Flight Sim add ons would have never paid for it to begin with. Yes, it's a problem, but we are not talking about mainstream PC games that sell millions of copies and piracy has a significant dent in the sales.

I'm also finding myself purchasing less addons for FSX and more for X-Plane for two reasons: 1. FSX is a "dead end" while X-Plane is constantly being developed. 2. X-Plane addons are much, much cheaper. I can get 4 - 5 decent planes for the price of one FSX add-on. They might not be quite as detailed, but they're no less enjoyable.

Try nowhere as detailed when dealing with the high end like LDS or PMDG...Xplane add-ons do not even come close. I have Xplane 9, nice for quick jants around but that's about it.

With all due respect

Your post has zero relevance to what I posted, so I'm unsure what that's supposed to mean... :(

I've been purchasing my add-ons from a site which uses Flight One E-commerce. Last month I purchaseda product, used it and found it didn't fit my needs and was promptly given a refund. That's the way to dobusiness.

Which, if you will please note is precisely the mechanism that Eaglesoft uses...As a semi-disabled person who depends completely on income from my models and gauge systems programming, I am adversely affected by piracy, and am highly offended by any and all attempts to rationalize away the immoral and unethical acts of pirates.

These threads spring up every so often. I don't tend to respond to them, because quite frankly, the same points get made, and people tend to believe what they believe.BUT, make no mistake: Piracy DOES impact the developers, publishers and contractors of flight simulator products. It also hurts the end-user. Piracy has become so ingrained in the mindset of computer gamers/users that I'm sure you will see developers of mass market PC games move onto developing solely for the console(s). That's unlikely to happen to the FS market, BUT, with the demise of ACES, who knows?Level-D Simulations and Flight1 have devised one way to stop the pirates once they have cracked the product: don't offer them any free support. If they're so smart to know how to rip something off, then they should be smart enough to run the software without any help whatsoever! :(

"...lacking any references?" The entire article is liberally sprinkled with ~100 hot-linked references! Simply because the author didn't provide a bulleted list of references at the end of the article may have led you to this erroneous conclusion.

I apologise. You are quite right. My browser is not showing the links as it should. Anyway, never had a problem with the document, as I said it covered a lot of the issues. Terry

I'm all for giving artists the royalties they deserve, and if I ever come across one I like I most certainly do, by buying their CD. But I'll be damned if I'll pay more to my ISP to support the duffers.

The New Zealand government nearly passed a law recently that made ISP's legally responsible for their customers file sharing activities. In practice it would have meant ISP's had an obligation to cut off internet access to customers if they were caught file sharing (even it was someone else was tapping into your poorly secured wireless access point or your employees were doing it despite the risk of being sacked if they got caught.). It's gone back for amendment but there are a lot of ordinary Internet users out there (business and residential) worried about how this will pan out in practice. I understand there are a number of countries who already have such a law in place. Governments are keen to fight piracy.So if any government instead decided ISP's were obliged to collect what would amount to a small tax on the internet, then I don't think there is a whole we could do about it. But let's face it, the administrative and legislative requirements of such a scheme would be immense and are well beyond discussion in this forum. There would be considerable difficulty making it work in practice, ( I mean how would PMDG get its worthwhile share?). But, no matter its flaws, it is a solution whereas telling everyone to stop file sharing has so far proved not to be. Now, your quote above clearly indicates you wouldn't want anything to do with this, so if we want our flight sim businesses to prosper for the greater good of our hobby, what do you think would be a better solution? :( Terry