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Guest PPSFA

Why do you buy?

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Guest PPSFA

Watching the latest "you are an idiot' / 'No, you are a liar' thread got me to thinking, which is always dangerous!What are the realistic requirements and expectations of the 'average' buyer. I know 'average' is a relative term and there is no way to actually quantify that but......Before you reach into your wallet, what do you look for? I never buy anything the day it's released and usually not for at least a few weeks, because I want to hear what issues have developed. I am a product of the "Microsoft Generation, every piece of software ever released is screwed up, wait for the first patch".For me, first and foremost, is the support history of the Developer/Producer. I want to know that if I buy a product, and I have a problem, they are there to fix it. I don't want to wait a week or two to end up recieving some ambigious answer to a simple question or problem. One of the single biggest irritants for me are 'closed' support forums. I undestand the reason, but from experiance, I know that results in lost sales and I doubt it offsets the concern about 'thiefs'. If they want it, they are going to get it, and no one is going to stop them. To me, not being able to access information provided by not only the developer, but also seeing the feedback from actual users, is a slap in the face. It smacks of 'hiding problems' because that's where customers are going to complain, and I want to see those complaints prior to purchase.Second, when a product has my interest, I look for features that are compatible with MY flying style. I don't care that 'Joe' uses TrackIR or that he only flys in VC. I disregard comments and opinions that are subjective, i.e. "The VC looks like crap" because everyones computers see things a different way. However when it's obvious that a 'feature' I use when flying is defective or completely missing, it gives me pause. I may end up still buying, but it's definatly 'strike TWO' on my list. I then have to compare the overall plane to others I already own and see if this plane is really needed. If I decide to buy it, I do it with as much information as I can get prior to purchase, so I have no one to blame if it turn's out it's not really for me. I have a hanger full of planes I bought and now seldom fly, for a variety of reasons. My priorities are a 2D cockpit and shared cockpit functionality. I do have a few with VC only and fly them when the crew I fly with in multiplayer decide to use them. We also have enough planes now that are shared cockpit compatible that I have become more selective in what I buy, because we use them to give instruction, and generally now, no SP, no purchase. The plane doesn't even need full compatibility, just the basics, gear, flaps, flight controls, throttles, and AP. I could care less if the Seat Belt sign works.Because I manage an online flight 'game', I work with the dev team every single day, and am fully aware of what it takes to get a product to market. We currently have over 110 planes and just released an 800 meg update, almost a years worth of work. And YUP, we messed up on a few things and have been scrambling to get the issues fixed, so I can see both sides of the equation, buyer and seller.The absolute LAST consideration for me is the price. I am more than willing to pay what is asked, if the plane has what I want, rather it's $40 or $400. I have thousands of $$$$ invested in FSX, hardware and software, so I only ask to get the value for the buck.Thats me, what about you, what do others looks for?

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The absolute LAST consideration for me is the price. I am more than willing to pay what is asked, if the plane has what I want, rather it's $40 or $400. I have thousands of $$$$ invested in FSX, hardware and software, so I only ask to get the value for the buck.
I'll echo that whole-heartedly. In fact, in some cases, I wish some would charge more and use the money to improve their development environment such that their projects can become more ambitious.

Jeff Bea

I am an avid globetrotter with my trusty Lufthansa B777F, Polar Air Cargo B744F, and Atlas Air B748F.

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Guest Zenra
I'll echo that whole-heartedly. In fact, in some cases, I wish some would charge more and use the money to improve their development environment such that their projects can become more ambitious.
+1I know I don't speak for everybody, and developers do have to be mindful of price points, but I have never hesitated to buy a flight sim / add-on based on price. In fact, I feel some of my best values have been from higher priced sims (e.g., most PMDG planes).

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Quality and performance. Price is almost a non-issue to me.


William Mayr

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The first consideration for me is the subject matter - does it interest me? Not much point buying an aircraft if it doesn't interest me.How well is the aircraft modelled? What depth are the systems represented? Does the sim version reflect the features and characteristics of the real life aircraft? If I pay for a specific aircraft, I want it to bear more than just a passing resemblance to characteristics of the real thing and not feature lots of default gauges and generic avionics and systems. Does the flight model represent the aircraft accurately? I'm not a real world pilot but I know enough to tell if an aircraft's flight model is hopelessly wrong.How is performance? I'm limited to using a mid-range system so if I hear something is hard on framerates I will most likely give it a miss.How is the quality of the VC? Seeing as this is where I will spend most of my time it's important for me that it is both good looking AND functional. I want 3D switches and the like, crisp high res textures that look convincing.Who is the developer? Some developers I will buy from almost without question because I know I am going to be getting a good product. Some I will exercise a degree of caution, and some I won't buy from because I know their products don't meet my standards. Another factor I have started to take into account recently is how the developers conduct themselves on the various FS forums - there is at least one developer I simply won't buy anything from in the future because of the way they conduct themselves in the forums.How is the product being received by the community? I don't place much stock in reviews from the big FS sites because I've seen one too many anomolies where a product gets a good official review from a site, but at the same time is being heavily criticised by the ordinary users.Price for me is is something that I evaluate on a case by case basis. It depends how much the product appeals to me.


Nick

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Interesting topic. For me the first thing I look for is the attitude of the developer, do they seemed concerned about performance, do they try to listen to concerns/wants from users, do they try to add features that are not the norm, are they knowledgeable to what the public wants AND what is possible to achieve, or do they act like they are Gods gift to FS? There are a few developers that will not get my money due to their bad/arrogant attitude towards their customers, it's a principle thing with me and I have done without a few popular addons because of it.I am not a systems person, I want a realistic looking VC more than anything, one that will add to the immersion and suspend the disbelief of it not being the real thing. I spend more time looking out the windows or hanging out in the back cabin than I do the panel.Performance in the sim and a developer that understands this and 'tries" to make to happen. I love detail and have no problem with a developer bragging about the detail in their addon as long as they are also bragging about it's great performance.Price plays a factor, especially is I don't know the developer and don't know his work.Lastly, I try to only support developers that are making FSX only addons. IMO, FS9 had it's day and has enough addons. I don't want the developer spending more time on an FS9 version, when they could be focusing on the FSX only features and getting it released sooner because of it.


Best, Michael

KDFW

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What are the realistic requirements and expectations of the 'average' buyer. I know 'average' is a relative term and there is no way to actually quantify that but......Before you reach into your wallet, what do you look for?
Before I shell out some greenbacks (or plastic today in age), I like to read threads about the product. I also like to look at quality preview screen shots or beta shots. Movies are nice too, but can sometimes be over-done. Some of my pet peeves are poor screenshots of the released product.... ughIf I have a specific question about the product I email the developer prior to purchase. Customer service is also a big one in my book. Once all that is taken care of I have to decide: Will it fit my flying style? (fast singles, light twins, and small bizjets) If so, will it produce high replay value? And then I buy.Important features for me as an average user (in order of importance):1) HQ/ High Fidelity VC2) Accurate flight dynamics3) Decent FPS (taking into consideration complexity of model, and my older computing system)4) Fairly in-depth systems5) Fairly realistic sounds6) misc features such as: tie downs, pitot covers, opening doors7) Price = value?If I may use a fairly recent product as an example...Lotus L39:Extremely HQ VC, excellent FDE, VERY good fps - (even on my system), fantastic systems programming, good sounds, and extra "nice to have" features, all at a decent price of 45 bucks

|Ryan Butterworth|

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My addon purchase rules:1. Must have been on the market for at least one year. (You woudn't buy a new car in its first year of production, would you??)2. Check AVSIM reviews & forums for what other users are saying.3. Download the manual, print it out and study it. No manual on line? - No sale!4. Ask questions- espec about probable performance on computers similar to yours.5. Assuming everything looks good so far, order ONLY the CD/DVD version when it comes out. No CD/DVD? - No sale! ( there may be a reason for no CD)Haven't been disappointed yet!Alex Reid

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A couple of things for me:Price: If the addon costs as much as a just released game, sorry but no-go, even major game expansion packs are never as much as the base game at launch. Price will scare a lot of people off, especially college students.Support: if the developer support is poor to put it politely, why should I bother with themQuality: I will not buy a product that is just an FS9 port or looks half-done.FPS: If it's too much of an FPS killer, no go.


Peter Clemenko III
Former AVSIM Staff Reviewer
All posts on the fourm are my own, and not representative of AVSIM.

PFE Expansion voice actor

"Solving new problems is what keeps us moving forward as individuals and as a society, so don't back down." Garry Kasparov
I do what I believe is right, not what is popular.

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I look at the value proposition. A US$80 aircraft may well represent that level of cost in development, but for me I don't stick to one model so it seems kind of expensive, just to sit in the hanger most of the time. Whereas a US$15 scenery I might pop for even if I go there only rarely. Some things I have been waiting for I get as soon as they are out (considering cost) though a couple of aircraft developers I haven't considered due to reputation regardless. So far I haven't bought any of the ancillary addons, maybe I don't realize what I'm missing.scott s..

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Guest AVN8tr

I think simply for me is how often am I going to use this particular product. If its a PMDG aircraft chances are i'm going to use it often so for me paying $20-30 dollars above retail price isn't a big issue at all given the detail involved! There are even products like Active Sky which i use 100% of the time to the point where I think it's just apart of the engine. So really for me it's not the actual cost of the product that matters as much as the marginal costs that will be lowered every time I do a flight. When it comes to airport scenery.. I just don't find any value in them at all, not only do they kill frame rates but some of the best airport scenery is actually freeware. I just don't see the value in a $30-40 product that made simply with 3dsmax, there is no code involved, and hence no real expertise in my mind. Though I must admit I have my eyes on the upcoming Pacific NorthWest from Orbx but thats only because there is so much value involved, 30 airports+, 10m DEM, photorealistic tiles, landclass/autogen, every layer of scenery is there where most companies seem to focus on a single layer or two at best.

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I'm SURE developers are reading this thread. Good discussion.Quality of aircraft, scenery, or whatever is foremost in my decision. Of course, it cannot be a "hog" on performance either. Also, there are certain planes and parts of the world that interest me. I am an addict when it comes to great VFR and GA flying, but I will buy a commercial jet if it meets my criteria on interest, visuals, and uniqueness.I'd love to have a Commanche 250 that looks good, because it's meaningful to me (flew right seat when I was 12 years old). All I did was take over the controls for a short time, but I still have fond memories. I'm sure many of us have memories of planes, locations, and experiences that make us pull the trigger on what to buy.Stan

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Guest PPSFA

Hmmmm, this was specific to FSX, wonder why it ended up moved.

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Guest jshyluk

Boy, I wish people would say, "I like to read the Reviews on AVSIM" more. Maybe that's a personal bias, though.This is an interesting topic which will help me get into the mind-set of the readers, I hope. As such, I can see this going way beyond FSX. Jeff ShylukSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

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Boy, I wish people would say, "I like to read the Reviews on AVSIM" more. Maybe that's a personal bias, though.This is an interesting topic which will help me get into the mind-set of the readers, I hope. As such, I can see this going way beyond FSX. Jeff ShylukSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM
To be honest Jeff, I get more info out of reading what various users post/think of a product more than reading one persons review. I find that if you have the results of 10 or so users, you can get more of an average of the pros and cons over one persons experience.

Best, Michael

KDFW

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