Hearing comments like "Air Scammer" and calling this niche addon a disaster are nothing shy of complete bull***+. Anyone here work with that certain guy/girl that opens their big mouth about something only to look foolish in the end? There's a lot of that going on around here regarding this addon. If you are that guy or girl, disregard this (or contemplate it :( ). The quality of what is done surpasses that of Wilco's offering -- what is left out can be ironed out in a few months. I'm impressed with the quality of the "launcher" program alone. I've decided to stick with Airsimmer while they claw their way through certain folks' BS, chicken little "mongering" and all together innorance. I decided to buy it... And when it is done (positivity: try it) I'll be able to say I helped. That's my rant. Night folks.

Hearing comments like "Air Scammer" and calling this niche addon a disaster are nothing shy of complete bull***+. Anyone here work with that certain guy/girl that opens their big mouth about something only to look foolish in the end? There's a lot of that going on around here regarding this addon. If you are that guy or girl, disregard this (or contemplate it :( ). The quality of what is done surpasses that of Wilco's offering -- what is left out can be ironed out in a few months. I'm impressed with the quality of the "launcher" program alone. I've decided to stick with Airsimmer while they claw their way through certain folks' BS, chicken little "mongering" and all together ignorance. I decided to buy it... And when it is done (positivity: try it) I'll be able to say I helped. That's my rant. Night folks.

Good Reply mate hats off.This whole situation is getting outta control and is being FUELED by certain individuals that seem to be fanning the fire. I think that what people call free speech is a good thing but this CONSTANT flaming of Airsimmer is not doing them any favors and is basically boiling down to nothing but a Piranha fight over a scrap of meat.. I wonder have these CERTAIN people given Airsimmer there money? Doubt it. I wonder what other companies these certain individuals have given money to but kept there traps shut because to them it was an AWESOME add-on.Ill NOT name other companies but i have given money for products that i love and thought that would be wonderful only to be let down and the resulting patches only to turn out the finished product as NOT to be flash hot. The guy who posted the price comparison between other companies pricing IS a very good example that Airsimmer IS NOT the bad guy here in fact it IS quite competitively priced. The only reason these naysayers got something to flame about is because there was a ET opening and people were welcomed to join it and pay money to do so. Fair enough. We all have a choice. We either do or do not. So to the CERTAIN few that are taking great pleasure in fanning the flames. Take a step back and take a DEEP breath. And to the Mods, im not telling you HOW to do you're job but i think some of these guys could be toned down a bit.RegardsMike

Good Reply mate hats off.This whole situation is getting outta control and is being FUELED by certain individuals that seem to be fanning the fire. I think that what people call free speech is a good thing but this CONSTANT flaming of Airsimmer is not doing them any favors and is basically boiling down to nothing but a Piranha fight over a scrap of meat.. I wonder have these CERTAIN people given Airsimmer there money? Doubt it. I wonder what other companies these certain individuals have given money to but kept there traps shut because to them it was an AWESOME add-on.Ill NOT name other companies but i have given money for products that i love and thought that would be wonderful only to be let down and the resulting patches only to turn out the finished product as NOT to be flash hot. The guy who posted the price comparison between other companies pricing IS a very good example that Airsimmer IS NOT the bad guy here in fact it IS quite competitively priced. The only reason these naysayers got something to flame about is because there was a ET opening and people were welcomed to join it and pay money to do so. Fair enough. We all have a choice. We either do or do not. So to the CERTAIN few that are taking great pleasure in fanning the flames. Take a step back and take a DEEP breath. And to the Mods, im not telling you HOW to do you're job but i think some of these guys could be toned down a bit.RegardsMike

I, for one, have given Airsimmer my money. Therefore I have the right to be frustrated when it doesn't work. I also have the right to voice my opinion about the product. Like I have said multiple times, I am giving Airsimmer the benefit of the doubt and riding this one out. The bus has amazing potential when it works. I finally completed my First flight after many many ctd's. I will say that when it works, it is great! And when they get all the bugs worked out, this will be a fine piece of art. My question to you is: have you bought it? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

Exactly have you bought it? Because anyone that has and says that this is bug-free / frustration free product is full of it. And sorry if I'm such a nay-sayer but as a developer it's easy to judge the level of bugs and these aren't your simple run of the mill bugs. These are bugs that would have stopped any credible company from releasing this product. Face it.. they did this to themselves.

No way I'm buying the Basic Edition because:1. It was released hastily with known bugs still not fixed. It was released far, far too early;2. It was released without offering much more than the default Airbus in FSX (all the AS A320 for FS9 has over the default FSX Airbus is something resembling part of a flight computer, a better looking VC and exterior model and a heap of eye candy I couldn't care less about when flying at FL390;3. I want the Advanced Edition (if I end up buying anything from them) and they won't offer an upgrade option

No

...I was told it would have that by the developers. Maybe the advanced version only? If not, I don't see any reason to get this plane... I think developers, when they make such a n expensive plane, should really provide an option to save panel states. If not a seperate dialog box, like with PMDG and LevelD, make it so that switches are saved on saving the flight, like PMDG did with their J41.

I, for one, have given Airsimmer my money. Therefore I have the right to be frustrated when it doesn't work. I also have the right to voice my opinion about the product. Like I have said multiple times, I am giving Airsimmer the benefit of the doubt and riding this one out. The bus has amazing potential when it works. I finally completed my First flight after many many ctd's. I will say that when it works, it is great! And when they get all the bugs worked out, this will be a fine piece of art. My question to you is: have you bought it? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

Exactly have you bought it? Because anyone that has and says that this is bug-free / frustration free product is full of it. And sorry if I'm such a nay-sayer but as a developer it's easy to judge the level of bugs and these aren't your simple run of the mill bugs. These are bugs that would have stopped any credible company from releasing this product. Face it.. they did this to themselves.

Im in the ET and thats all you need to know. So yes i have given money and have the product.@cohort Well lets hope and pray it gets to full fuition :). I think it deserves that. @AVN8tr Did you buy it? If you havent then what are you flaming about? Besides i dont NEED to face anything. Im happy where im at atm.. Are you?Im not a Airsimmer a really excited user nor any other Company a really excited user i relize Digital software WILL always have bugs on release cause THATS the way it is. People ALWAYS expect a 100% no matter what. And very true after all im handing my money over in good faith. But the reality of it all is that there is NEVER EVER a perfect 100% bugfree product PERIOD. To think that there should be is a unrealistic view.If everyone went around with this type of attitude then there WOULDNT be an developers because they would be sunk before they started.What it boild down to is this. If you dont want the DONT BUY ITIf you dont have it then youre options on flamming a developer are thin ( Whoops Forgot about free speech :( )If you do want it but the reports coming back are unfavouriable THEN WAIT. No one is pulling youre arms off to go buy it RIGHT now!PATIENCE!!!RegardsMike

Interesting how the ET team have gone from praising a product to damage control in one Weekend... last week was "oh it's better than PMDG" this week its "no product is perfect and even PMDG sux"....

Interesting how the ET team have gone from praising a product to damage control in one Weekend... last week was "oh it's better than PMDG" this week its "no product is perfect and even PMDG sux"....

LOL mate im not in damage control.. Does it look like in ANY of my posts that i am? Im afraid it seems youre running out of decent comebacks.. Tell ya what you go buy the basic package then come back, that way youll have a better understanding of what is really going on.It seems youre either only after posting glory or trying to keep the thread alive :(RegardsMike

LOL mate im not in damage control.. Does it look like in ANY of my posts that i am? Im afraid it seems youre running out of decent comebacks.. Tell ya what you go buy the basic package then come back, that way youll have a better understanding of what is really going on.It seems youre either only after posting glory or trying to keep the thread alive :(RegardsMike

Actually I have bought the product, and I have returned.. and quite personally I don't appreciate the ET efforts of attacking people who give an HONEST review of the product. No matter how negative they appear, they're only telling the TRUTH and trying to prevent the rest of the AVSIM community from the grief they suffered. And of course you're a a really excited user... do you even know what the term means? how can you be on the ET and be impartial? think about it.G'day.

Hello all,I tried to make some sense out of this thread and to my disappointment I came to the conclusion that nobody is keeping a cool and objective head either side. There are some facts that I guess are indisputable: 1. There is a bad karma generally with new developments during the past 3-4 years. Most of these development efforts have a common denominator: Great expectations cultivated solely by the developers themselves. (Airliner XP, DA and now Airsimmer, to mention a few)2. Different level of expectations by the users depending on their attitude towards the hobby. Some like clickable but non-functioning buttons, some like to spend hours rotating externally the models, some prefer 2D some prefer 3D and so go on. This extends to what everyone defines also as "realistic". For some it is realistic not to observer climb or descent rates of more than 5000 f/sec while for others realistic is to have a fully Functioning FMC/CDU that adheres to the operation manual of a real Airbus. In a freeware model made for XPlane, I have even been asked as to "which firmware of the real Airbus do I want to stick to".3. Stability (crash to desktop) events are chaotic in general and depend on many issues. That may include the textures you installed during ActiveSky installation, to mention one. For this reason it is very difficult to persuade a temperamental developer (trust me I am one of them) that the bug is his fault. 4. We are all consider ourselves "experienced" users and consumers with one or the other way and as such we try to interpret the market and the actions of the developers. However it is very difficult to prove our postulations and there are people who are eager to jump into the defense or the offense.Having mention these 4 points, here is my 2 cents (or better 4 cents):1. Most of the "developers" are not professional company bodies that follow ornithological corporate rules. Most of them they started as a team of "buddies" who aimed for a maximalistic approach fueled by their own enthusiasm. It was at a later stage, when they realized that this effort is a "full time occupation" that they decided to put some structure to their efforts. By then it was too late as their commitments exceeded their actual abilities (both in man-hours willing to commit and in actual software development abilities). So my advice in general is "do not shot at the piano player" and, to use a Greek proverb, "always keep a small basket when you are promised for a field full of big red and juicy cherries".2. The Airsimmers package is definitely not what was promised, but the second part of the question is to "whom was the promise made"? Was it made to the PSS fun (like me) that considers it a good compromise? Was it made to the "feelthere" fun who do not care about the "Micky mouse" look of the 2D interior? Was it made to the "cowboy" who takes off, lands and parks on auto pilot? Or was it made to the hardcore "wanna be pilot" who tries to fly fully manual an A318 and never engages the AP1 button? The later sometimes, tries to override the throttles as well essentially running a Boing simulation in an Airbus simulation in a Flight Simulation :( Now behind the lines, we all know of course what Airsimmer promised and to whom, but I will analyze this in the 4th paragraph.3. The product stability was probably overlooked based on a percentage of crashes on clean installations. That means that when Airsimmer decided to play it "corporate" they tried to follow all the rules of a commercial company, including the "never acknowledge anything" and the "try to be rhetoric with your clients". Thus I think it is our problem that we have not switch out state of mind and we still consider them a group of "fellow simmers" who wants to offer us endless hours of pleasure for peanuts.4. So, here we are at the final part of the line of my thoughts. Do we all know what Airsimmer promised? Yes we know but we can't prove it as there is no point to. Yes they promised everything and they deliver nothing in comparison with. Can we charge them with ill/malicious objectives? Not at the first instance, when they were full of enthusiasm promising everything, yes at a second instance when they tried to sell their beta version as a "fantastic" package in the light of financial disaster. Did we suspected that this will happen when last May the monthly updates stopped? Yes we did but our thoughts are irrelevant now. Some happened with Airliner XP, it is called consumer experience. It is a good exercise thought for future troubles. Many people back then jumped to shout the usual "Stop trolling and stop being negative". Well here is the usefulness and the tragedy of being negative. If you listen to the "trollers" you definitely will end up with better policies as by definition listening to the praising voices you end up doing nothing to improve on a situation. What could they have done back then instead of trying to persuade their selves that all are rosy?a) Ask for donations:( Release the beta for $10 with no promises hoping to sell like pancakesc) Release the model for nothing and charge per system once completed as upgrades.The fact is that we are where we are now and the fact is that there will be endless discussions based on personal expectations, experiences and attitudes. It all depends where we want to push the market towards:1) We either buy, massively buy, the Airsimmer product, trying to support them, no matter how much it satisfies our expectations, hoping that in 6 months we will have something better. Forget about upgrades or anything. Airsimmer today essentially requests $20 donation and $20 for a mediocre model.2) Or, we don't buy and we let them sink, punishing them for doing bad planning and marketing.The first option sends a message to other potential developers that they can get away with poor planning and vaporware ideas. It however gives us hope about something. The second option will just sentence to death one more Airbus attempt but will clearly point towards what the users really want. The choice is not easy but ours...ReagrdsYiannisp.s And a final think that I forgot... The FS Developer community is the ONLY group of developers that seems to ignore the "TRAIL IDEA". I am sure that if you spend 3 years in developing something, you can definitely provide a time limited version. By this way at least some of us would be better informed.

Actually I have bought the product, and I have returned.. and quite personally I don't appreciate the ET efforts of attacking people who give an HONEST review of the product. No matter how negative they appear, they're only telling the TRUTH and trying to prevent the rest of the AVSIM community from the grief they suffered. And of course you're a a really excited user... do you even know what the term means? how can you be on the ET and be impartial? think about it.G'day.

G'Day Matey You dont know me and i dont know you so lets leave it at that. Youre one of the guys THAT continually fuel the fires on this whole Airsimmer topic and it ISNT helping anyone. So Dont PRESUME to think that because im in ET that im a a really excited user as you say..I like the A3xx and this plane is atm the best that is around BUGS AND ALL!!!! (Oh do i know what a really excited user means.. Hangon ill get the dictionary of ridiculas terms out) If you wish to continue this discussion please pm me. I didnt come hear to flame anyone but you seem to be doing a good job youre self against others.Peace out brother RegardsMike

Why should customers who've paid money for it have to wait at all to get something that's fit for purpose?

The same reason people sat around waiting for a year after FSX was released waiting for it to get fixed (which in my book still hasn't happened after two SP's)....

Don't you think that's a rather foolish argument?

1. Microsoft fouled up the release of FSX
2. Therefore any add-on developer is justified in fouling up its own release

Hello all,I tried to make some sense out of this thread and to my disappointment I came to the conclusion that nobody is keeping a cool and objective head either side. There are some facts that I guess are indisputable: 1. There is a bad karma generally with new developments during the past 3-4 years. Most of these development efforts have a common denominator: Great expectations cultivated solely by the developers themselves. (Airliner XP, DA and now Airsimmer, to mention a few)2. Different level of expectations by the users depending on their attitude towards the hobby. Some like clickable but non-functioning buttons, some like to spend hours rotating externally the models, some prefer 2D some prefer 3D and so go on. This extends to what everyone defines also as "realistic". For some it is realistic not to observer climb or descent rates of more than 5000 f/sec while for others realistic is to have a fully Functioning FMC/CDU that adheres to the operation manual of a real Airbus. In a freeware model made for XPlane, I have even been asked as to "which firmware of the real Airbus do I want to stick to".3. Stability (crash to desktop) events are chaotic in general and depend on many issues. That may include the textures you installed during ActiveSky installation, to mention one. For this reason it is very difficult to persuade a temperamental developer (trust me I am one of them) that the bug is his fault. 4. We are all consider ourselves "experienced" users and consumers with one or the other way and as such we try to interpret the market and the actions of the developers. However it is very difficult to prove our postulations and there are people who are eager to jump into the defense or the offense.Having mention these 4 points, here is my 2 cents (or better 4 cents):1. Most of the "developers" are not professional company bodies that follow ornithological corporate rules. Most of them they started as a team of "buddies" who aimed for a maximalistic approach fueled by their own enthusiasm. It was at a later stage, when they realized that this effort is a "full time occupation" that they decided to put some structure to their efforts. By then it was too late as their commitments exceeded their actual abilities (both in man-hours willing to commit and in actual software development abilities). So my advice in general is "do not shot at the piano player" and, to use a Greek proverb, "always keep a small basket when you are promised for a field full of big red and juicy cherries".2. The Airsimmers package is definitely not what was promised, but the second part of the question is to "whom was the promise made"? Was it made to the PSS fun (like me) that considers it a good compromise? Was it made to the "feelthere" fun who do not care about the "Micky mouse" look of the 2D interior? Was it made to the "cowboy" who takes off, lands and parks on auto pilot? Or was it made to the hardcore "wanna be pilot" who tries to fly fully manual an A318 and never engages the AP1 button? The later sometimes, tries to override the throttles as well essentially running a Boing simulation in an Airbus simulation in a Flight Simulation :( Now behind the lines, we all know of course what Airsimmer promised and to whom, but I will analyze this in the 4th paragraph.3. The product stability was probably overlooked based on a percentage of crashes on clean installations. That means that when Airsimmer decided to play it "corporate" they tried to follow all the rules of a commercial company, including the "never acknowledge anything" and the "try to be rhetoric with your clients". Thus I think it is our problem that we have not switch out state of mind and we still consider them a group of "fellow simmers" who wants to offer us endless hours of pleasure for peanuts.4. So, here we are at the final part of the line of my thoughts. Do we all know what Airsimmer promised? Yes we know but we can't prove it as there is no point to. Yes they promised everything and they deliver nothing in comparison with. Can we charge them with ill/malicious objectives? Not at the first instance, when they were full of enthusiasm promising everything, yes at a second instance when they tried to sell their beta version as a "fantastic" package in the light of financial disaster. Did we suspected that this will happen when last May the monthly updates stopped? Yes we did but our thoughts are irrelevant now. Some happened with Airliner XP, it is called consumer experience. It is a good exercise thought for future troubles. Many people back then jumped to shout the usual "Stop trolling and stop being negative". Well here is the usefulness and the tragedy of being negative. If you listen to the "trollers" you definitely will end up with better policies as by definition listening to the praising voices you end up doing nothing to improve on a situation. What could they have done back then instead of trying to persuade their selves that all are rosy?a) Ask for donations:( Release the beta for $10 with no promises hoping to sell like pancakesc) Release the model for nothing and charge per system once completed as upgrades.The fact is that we are where we are now and the fact is that there will be endless discussions based on personal expectations, experiences and attitudes. It all depends where we want to push the market towards:1) We either buy, massively buy, the Airsimmer product, trying to support them, no matter how much it satisfies our expectations, hoping that in 6 months we will have something better. Forget about upgrades or anything. Airsimmer today essentially requests $20 donation and $20 for a mediocre model.2) Or, we don't buy and we let them sink, punishing them for doing bad planning and marketing.The first option sends a message to other potential developers that they can get away with poor planning and vaporware ideas. It however gives us hope about something. The second option will just sentence to death one more Airbus attempt but will clearly point towards what the users really want. The choice is not easy but ours...ReagrdsYiannisp.s And a final think that I forgot... The FS Developer community is the ONLY group of developers that seems to ignore the "TRAIL IDEA". I am sure that if you spend 3 years in developing something, you can definitely provide a time limited version. By this way at least some of us would be better informed.

What a remarkable and excellently articulated post Yiannis. I could not agree more with you on the points raised. It is a very interesting and true point regarding the developers (some of whom are now shouting 'poor us!') often cultaviting much of their own bad karma, by promising the world, then not being able to deliver, for whatever reason. This is why I 100% agree with the Level D approach (re: 757), say nothing! ..... just work away in the background, with the knowledge that you have a strong customer support and loyalty out there, and when the time is right, just release something that blows away the expectations! PMDG are also 'getting this' too. The J41 effectively came from nowhere and it is stunning. In the past, developers like feelThere/Wilco, Eaglesoft, 'Airliner XP' and Digital Aviation have made much noise and self exceitement, then not delivered products that meet many people's expectations for the noise made! (I said 'many' people, not all!).Great post - agree we need a more level headed, logical approach to what has happened here. It's confusing, the videos, screenies, etc, for the AS A320 look amazing, I so WANT to buy it! ..... but then some say it's perfectly usable in 'normal' operation while others say it can't complete a flight. Some say it's the same level as the FeelThere Airbus Series 1, some say it's already better, some say it's no better than the default FSX A321 !I suppose the sensible thing is to wait, until Air Simmer at the very least get a Bug List up and running, where they can restore confidence by acknowledging the CTD and other serious errors, so at least 'bleeding edge' buyers now, know their product will be fixed and will improve.

Honestly, the vitriol in these threads (and the Eaglesoft Citation X threads too) ought to be enough to kill of every developer and potential developer out there. No-one is compelling anyone to buy the A320, whether now in Basic form, or in the future in advanced form. Why can't people just leave it alone if they don't like it instead of heaping on the hate?I would have thought that simmers ought to be at least a little bit pleased that anyone is developing hard core addons for a sim platform which has been killed by its owners, but no. Instead it seems like some just want to hasten the death of developers who've done something they dislike.

Exactly. The most absurd and yet humorous part of all this, at least from our perspective, is that those who post the most offensive vitriol are under no threat to their lives if they do not purchase.One would think that potential customers are being held under duress in some remote location, family kidnapped, and the only ransom that will satisfy the kidnappers is to purchase FS Addons that they don't want or like.Really folks, the consumer advocacy mentality has really reached critical mass in this community.Relax, check the other room and note that your family is still there, the kidnappers are imaginary, and you are not required to make another FS Addon Purchase ever. :(