A chance for FS9ers

[Kosta 122]

In for it, if 100% refundable if there is no FS9 product.

[chris41 0]

For what it's worth- the AVSIM Survey, as of Dec 30/09, reports on the question: "What is your primary FS simulator?" -From 2521 replies to date- 50.1% use FS9, 47.4% use FSX.Alex Reid

Where is this survey found? I'd like to add myselft to that percentage of those who are still using FS9. FSX is great but I my computer doesn't do to well with it and I don't have the money to upgrade.Chris Porter

[basa 0]

Where is this survey found?

Here:http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=248069

[Benjamin J 751]

All right, no pre-order. But to me, to me it looks like a lot of customers are sending a message to PMDG...Bruno

Well, I have FSX and FS9, but I predominantly use FS9. I really do want the FS9 version, honestly... It would make my day. But, knowing PMDG, I can assure you that more of these posts will not really help make PMDG a decision. They said there won't be a pre-order, and they said they'll review the situation when the FSX version is nearing release. Knowing PMNDG, they are not going to deviate from this plan. They are the developers, and if they see money in doing a FS9 version, then they will do it. If not, they won't. Us saying we want it won't change the fact that PMDG needs to earn their bread with these products, and if they can't do that... well.

[Guest 747-fan]

For what it's worth- the AVSIM Survey, as of Dec 30/09, reports on the question: "What is your primary FS simulator?" -From 2521 replies to date- 50.1% use FS9, 47.4% use FSX.Alex Reid

Interesting numbers. Statistic should be taken with quite a few grains of salt though. I'm not saying that the numbers are wrong, but I'd like to ask if perhaps FS9ers are more inclined to answer this survey than FSX'ers? It seems quite a few FS9ers are very protective of that sim. I remember I used to be.Perhaps if we could get the number of connections by FSX or FS9 on Vatsim and IVAO then we could get a number to compare it with. Sort of a 2nd opinion, which would bypass the "protective" factor. But then again, perhaps the Vatsim and IVAO crew are more inclined to invest (perhaps unreasonable amounts of)money in their rigs and therefore FSX might be overly represented? Also, when was this survey? was it on for 24 hours? If not, could there be differences in say US vs EU sim of preference? I'm sure most Australian simmers have FSX ever since ORBX's scenery got released. Same will probably be for Pacific Northwest simmers once their PNW package comes out. And then I imagine that most Portland Oregon residents stay on FS9 until there's a scenery addon for FSX that's the same quality as Flightzone one for FS9. There's bound to be tons of local differences that might amount to something if the survey might not have a proper representable selection.I'm sure there are tons of other factors that influenced this survey, as in any quantitative survey. i'd like some comparison numbers and if possible some distinguising facts like "if you had to choose one..." to seperate out the "both simmers" and such.

[madtun 2]

Well, I have FSX and FS9, but I predominantly use FS9. I really do want the FS9 version, honestly... It would make my day. But, knowing PMDG, I can assure you that more of these posts will not really help make PMDG a decision. They said there won't be a pre-order, and they said they'll review the situation when the FSX version is nearing release. Knowing PMNDG, they are not going to deviate from this plan. They are the developers, and if they see money in doing a FS9 version, then they will do it. If not, they won't. Us saying we want it won't change the fact that PMDG needs to earn their bread with these products, and if they can't do that... well.

I wish PMDG would make up their minds NOW so I can move on or look to purchase my 737NX. Give another developer the chance to sell their version knowing they will not have to compete with PMDG. This would give them the opportunity to know they will make some money.Carl Perry 7 year sim pilot

[perryfincher 0]

I'm in.Wanting to see NGX go for FS9

[ahuimanu 50]

I've seen the word "interest" used here quite extensively. I think the only "interest" that should be on the minds of anyone who would go in for this is: what interest yield does parking money into this market speculation device yield for the investor? Are we to park our money for some indeterminant amount of time without interest earnings? Otherwise, I think you are talking about an escrow-type deal. In the end, FS9ers would be better off squirreling their add-on dollars away for a circa 2010 machine and stop bothering with 7.5-YEAR-OLD software!FSX is (forseeably) the end of the road - better than energy is spent making that great than WASTING development energy on FS9. Please EUTHANIZE FS9 already.

[BillC 135]

Interesting numbers. Statistic should be taken with quite a few grains of salt though.

Aint that the truth? Apart from anything else it is only a snapshot, without the trend data (the way the market share is moving over time) then it's meaningless. PMDG will have that trend data and that's what sales forecasts are based on. If, for example, it showed that the FS9 market had dropped 30% in the last 12 months and the FSX market was up 30% then how would one forecast the future market for products in, say, a years time? Very differently from a snapshot showing equal market share!

[Mike_CFII_MEL 804]

Hi,That won't work, it depends on the demand of a particular product. Look at REX for FS2004, their servers got "HAMMERED" when the product was released. Develop a product the flightsim community wants (for FS9 or FSX) and it WILL SELL!. REX2004 is proof that FS9'ers still exist in large numbers and are willing to part with their hard earned dollars, if they didn't, the servers would of been able to handle the load.FS9 is far from dead and in need of being EUTHANIZETo ahuimanu,"FSX is (forseeably) the end of the road"That statement is not even close to being correct. I take it your not familiar with "Aerosoft and/or Cascade Game Foundry"!. Both companies looking to take over where Microsoft left off in regards to flightsim. I would love to see a new FS2004 737 from PMDG, if it materializes I will purchase, if it doesn't, so-be-it.

Aint that the truth? Apart from anything else it is only a snapshot, without the trend data (the way the market share is moving over time) then it's meaningless. PMDG will have that trend data and that's what sales forecasts are based on. If, for example, it showed that the FS9 market had dropped 30% in the last 12 months and the FSX market was up 30% then how would one forecast the future market for products in, say, a years time? Very differently from a snapshot showing equal market share!

[Turbine777 13]

I always laugh at the FS is dead comments. IF microsoft, ace, really is done with it, then we'll definitely see someone else grab it and run with it eventually. The problem is it takes more than know how, it takes serious coin. We will see many many more new flight sims, that I'm sure of.After 9-11, there was a lot of heat on Microsoft if anyone remembers, their statements could have also been from it, but dropping it after 20 years? I doubt it, perhaps for a while. But as Bill said, someone will take it to the next level soon as they can. Most software addon developers don't know enough, they use SDK tools to produce their addons, it's only a matter of time before someone with the $$$ and the knowledge does it, but just a couple years after FSX, I don't think we should expect anything anytime soon.

[BillC 135]

That won't work, it depends on the demand of a particular product.

You missed the point then. Demand 'now' can be very very different to the demand next year or the year after, that's why trend data is more important to developers/sellers than snapshot data. I'll give you an example, take a snapshot of last week's NFL scores, based on that snapshot the scores say that the Bears are a better team than the Vikings. Put the trend data into the equation (i.e. the rest of the season) and that snapshot conclusion is laughable. Same with FS, the market shares of FS9 & FSX change over time, one is climbing and the other is falling so to base a sale forecast on 'right now' would be a dodgy conclusion, the trend has to be extrapolated to the future to determine the likelihood of sales when the product is finally released.

[january 19]

Aint that the truth? Apart from anything else it is only a snapshot, without the trend data (the way the market share is moving over time) then it's meaningless. PMDG will have that trend data and that's what sales forecasts are based on. If, for example, it showed that the FS9 market had dropped 30% in the last 12 months and the FSX market was up 30% then how would one forecast the future market for products in, say, a years time? Very differently from a snapshot showing equal market share!

Bill- Since you can vote only once in this survey- which has been running for nearly a year- in many respects it is a "Trend" rather than snapshot if compared to prior results.Going back 3 months to Oct 5/09 :FS9- 50.5% vs Jan 01/10 - 50.3%FSX- 47.0% vs Jan 01/10 - 47.2%There is a slight trend toward FSX but that would be expected since you can only vote once- ie the stats are biased to new arrivals who are almost certain to use FSX. The numbers do not reflect changes/conversions from 9 to X OR X back to 9 - since these folks had already voted & are unable to post their new status.We need to restart the survey to get a more accurate picture as to where things really stand today.Alex Reid

[Mike_CFII_MEL 804]

Hi,You have plenty of know how on the Cascade Game Foundry team, most of them are from Aces and those that aren't have been involved with some pretty heavy gaming/simulation titles, this statement is taken right from their web site."Simulating Experience™The experienced team at Cascade Game Foundry is primarily composed of entertainment simulation experts from the former Aces Studio at Microsoft. This team brings unrivaled expertise and passion for simulations and entertainment software, and they are highly skilled at building breathtakingly-accurate simulations for hardcore audiences, as well as compelling exploration gameplay for a casual audience. Team members have shipped dozens of successful titles in the Simulation, Action, Racing, Strategy, and Sports genres, including: * Microsoft Flight Simulator (many versions) * Microsoft Train Simulator (including the scuttled version 2) * Janes F15 * Janes F/A-18 * Project Gotham Racing 3 * Project Gotham Racing 4 * Fable 2 * Halo * Halo 2 * Halo 3 * Shadowrun * NFL Fever 2000 – 2003 * And many others.We’re confident that the pedigree of our team will allow us to build products that will delight and amaze you, and provide you with many hours of enjoyment.We’ll introduce you to individual team members in the coming months as we progress on our first project. Stay tuned!"

I always laugh at the FS is dead comments. IF microsoft, ace, really is done with it, then we'll definitely see someone else grab it and run with it eventually. The problem is it takes more than know how, it takes serious coin. We will see many many more new flight sims, that I'm sure of.After 9-11, there was a lot of heat on Microsoft if anyone remembers, their statements could have also been from it, but dropping it after 20 years? I doubt it, perhaps for a while. But as Bill said, someone will take it to the next level soon as they can. Most software addon developers don't know enough, they use SDK tools to produce their addons, it's only a matter of time before someone with the $$$ and the knowledge does it, but just a couple years after FSX, I don't think we should expect anything anytime soon.

[Mike_CFII_MEL 804]

Hi,That all depends on the amount of time it will take PMDG to port this over to FS9. It may only take six months, you've given it one to two years. Since you or I do not have this (port-over) information we have no way of knowing. Is the downward trend everyone speaks of a result of poor / unwanted / non developed FS9 addons? and not the willingness of FS2004 users to pay for quality addon products. I know we have seen an increase in FSX payware products as well as a decrease in FS2004 payware products, that in-and-of-itself may be the reason for the 30% decrease between sims. You have two Flightsim products with two different markets, instead of comparing the two sims, companies need to determine sales in each platform as well as port-over time. FSX has been out how long?, look at the following FS2004 still has. Hardware is not going to jump that much in the next two years where you will see a mass exit-is in FS9. Even if hardware technology is there, the cost will be prohibitive for many. If there is a mass exit-is (from both FS2004 & FSX), its more than likely to come as a result of a new flight sim platform from Aerosoft and/or Cascade Game Foundry, that means add-on companies such as PMDG will have to start from scratch. A new Flightsim platform is more of a threat to PMDG and other developers than harware catching up to FSX and FS2004 users leaving FS2004 for FSX. I will say this, there hasn't been any other Microsoft Flight Simulation product on the market that has had such a following "YEARS" after its predecessor has been release than FS2004!. I should know, I've been simming since Microsoft Flight Simulator for the Tandy 1000 back in the days of Bruce Artwick (28 years ago), Man I'm getting old. :( That does and should weigh in FS2004's favor.

You missed the point then. Demand 'now' can be very very different to the demand next year or the year after, that's why trend data is more important to developers/sellers than snapshot data. I'll give you an example, take a snapshot of last week's NFL scores, based on that snapshot the scores say that the Bears are a better team than the Vikings. Put the trend data into the equation (i.e. the rest of the season) and that snapshot conclusion is laughable. Same with FS, the market shares of FS9 & FSX change over time, one is climbing and the other is falling so to base a sale forecast on 'right now' would be a dodgy conclusion, the trend has to be extrapolated to the future to determine the likelihood of sales when the product is finally released.