Interesting discussion on FlyTampa forums

[Glynn 405]

HelloFS versions in use for the RTW raceFS9 [ 12 ] [54.55%]FSX [ 10 ] [45.45%]

[kiwikat 531]

HelloFS versions in use for the RTW raceFS9 [ 12 ] [54.55%]FSX [ 10 ] [45.45%]

ROFLMAO this is the icing on the cake.22!!! samples. Incredible! :( :( :( This forum is brilliant. There is so much free entertainment. Why go watch a comedy or go to a comedy club, you can just read one of these threads?!Sean/cmpbellsjc, congrats for handily owning every f*nb*y on this thread.*Time to go back to the upper deck and watch the rest of the game*

[Wolfko 0]

ROFLMAO this is the icing on the cake.22!!! samples. Incredible! :( :( :( This forum is brilliant. There is so much free entertainment. Why go watch a comedy or go to a comedy club, you can just read one of these threads?!Sean/cmpbellsjc, congrats for handily owning every f*nb*y on this thread.*Time to go back to the upper deck and watch the rest of the game*

Kiwi (bird or fruit?),It's maybe just 22 samples, yes, but isn't it thought-provoking that in the AVSIM survey "What's your favourite sim" FS9 is leading? Isn't it thought-provoking, that FS9 leads in the RTW race (yes I know just 22 samples, but still!). Isn't it thought-provoking that there is every day much more freeware added to the AVSIM library for FS9 than for FSX? Isn't it thought-provoking that FS9 has more downloads from the AVSIM library than FSX has? Etc. etc.! Could it be that the PMDG stats are wrong or that the PMDG sales figures are just not representative for the hobby?I don't know what your position is within PMDG (are you just a simple beta tester or somebody with more responsibility?) but let me tell you one thing, it is very, very bad marketing/business policy to ROFLMAO and make fun of a potential customer.Wolfgang

[Glynn 405]

ROFLMAO this is the icing on the cake.22!!! samples. Incredible! :( :( :( This forum is brilliant. There is so much free entertainment. Why go watch a comedy or go to a comedy club, you can just read one of these threads?!Sean/cmpbellsjc, congrats for handily owning every f*nb*y on this thread.*Time to go back to the upper deck and watch the rest of the game*

HelloGlad you found it funny William, but ask yourself why the folks who flew in this years RTW did not all use FSX if it is so much better.Who knows what the percentage split would have been with a larger sample.But I would not bet that it would have swung towards FSX, lets face it the numbers using FSX is disappointing consideringhow long it has been available.If you enjoy flying FSX so much then I am happy for youThat is all it is about at the end of the day enjoyment and I enjoy FS9, is that wrong in your book?

[kiwikat 531]

Kiwi (bird or fruit?),It's maybe just 22 samples, yes, but isn't it thought-provoking that in the AVSIM survey "What's your favourite sim" FS9 is leading? Isn't it thought-provoking, that FS9 leads in the RTW race (yes I know just 22 samples, but still!). Isn't it thought-provoking that there is every day much more freeware added to the AVSIM library for FS9 than for FSX? Isn't it thought-provoking that FS9 has more downloads from the AVSIM library than FSX has? Etc. etc.! Could it be that the PMDG stats are wrong or the PMDG sales figures are just not representative for the hobby?I don't know what your position is within PMDG (are you just a simple beta tester or somebody with more responsibility?) but let me tell you one thing, it is very, very bad marketing/business policy to ROFLMAO and make fun of a potential customer.Wolfgang

I'm currently not associating myself with any company (by my choice). For the record, I've never been associated with PMDG. I'm just a college student interested in FS and photography. That being said, I'll answer the rest of your queries. :( The AVSIM poll is also meaningless. Lets put it into perspective. Say Fred and Roger are running for governor. On my block, fred gets 10 votes, while roger gets 12. Of course, these results mean absolutely nothing compared to the overall result. 22 votes in a state where 10 million people live is... well... you do the math. OK OK, the AVSIM survey was a little bigger, but it is maybe only representative of people who voted in a small city within the state. What does either survey have to say about the people who don't use AVSIM and didn't fly the RTW race? What does that say about the people who didn't vote for governor in my example? They still live in the state, and still use and buy FS products.You CANNOT make generalizations on a whole population based on VERY small samples. It is hilarious seeing people throw statistics around here without actually knowing what they are talking about. Take a stats class, at the very least!There are more FS9 addons than FSX addons because it is EASIER to develop for FS9 and FS9 has been around for LONGER. To make even a simple repaint for FSX requires more than double the work it took in FS9. To make the rest of the plane requires a whole lot more effort than it did in FS9. The standards are also higher in FSX, thus taking more skill and more time to develop for it. And what a surprise... FS9 has more downloads. Might that have to do with there being 100x more files available?For the last time, PMDG KNOWS WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THEM. THEY WOULDN'T DROP FS9 IF IT WAS WORTH IT FOR THEM. I don't understand why you people cannot get that through your heads. It is NOT in a company's best interest to make decisions that would put them out of business. IF FS9 WAS PROFITABLE FOR THEM, THEY WOULD STILL BE MAKING FS9 ADDONS. PERIOD.Oh, and about the number of posts in the FS9 vs FSX sections. Take a look at another forum like Sim Outhouse that was entirely wiped a while back. The FSX section has 116,000 posts, and the FS9/8 section, 45,000. Truly if the unrepresentative population at SOH is representative of everyone else, there are obviously more FSX users. Oh wait, that's using your guys' logic.Sorry, nothing you asked was thought provoking. Just the usual misuse of statistics and denial that I've seen in every other FS9 vs FSX thread.Off to SQL class... enjoy the rest of the thread!Oh and before I go:

That is all it is about at the end of the day enjoyment and I enjoy FS9, is that wrong in your book?

Nope. There is nothing wrong with enjoying FS9. I enjoyed it for many thousands of hours myself. What is wrong is misusing statistics which in the end misleads people.

[Glynn 405]

I'm currently not associating myself with any company (by my choice). For the record, I've never been associated with PMDG. I'm just a college student interested in FS and photography. That being said, I'll answer the rest of your queries. :( The AVSIM poll is also meaningless. Lets put it into perspective. Say Fred and Roger are running for governor. On my block, fred gets 10 votes, while roger gets 12. Of course, these results mean absolutely nothing compared to the overall result. 22 votes in a state where 10 million people live is... well... you do the math. OK OK, the AVSIM survey was a little bigger, but it is maybe only representative of people who voted in a small city within the state. What does either survey have to say about the people who don't use AVSIM and didn't fly the RTW race? What does that say about the people who didn't vote for governor in my example? They still live in the state, and still use and buy FS products.You CANNOT make generalizations on a whole population based on VERY small samples. It is hilarious seeing people throw statistics around here without actually knowing what they are talking about. Take a stats class, at the very least!There are more FS9 addons than FSX addons because it is EASIER to develop for FS9 and FS9 has been around for LONGER. To make even a simple repaint for FSX requires more than double the work it took in FS9. To make the rest of the plane requires a whole lot more effort than it did in FS9. The standards are also higher in FSX, thus taking more skill and more time to develop for it. And what a surprise... FS9 has more downloads. Might that have to do with there being 100x more files available?For the last time, PMDG KNOWS WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THEM. THEY WOULDN'T DROP FS9 IF IT WAS WORTH IT FOR THEM. I don't understand why you people cannot get that through your heads. It is NOT in a company's best interest to make decisions that would put them out of business. IF FS9 WAS PROFITABLE FOR THEM, THEY WOULD STILL BE MAKING FS9 ADDONS. PERIOD.Oh, and about the number of posts in the FS9 vs FSX sections. Take a look at another forum like Sim Outhouse that was entirely wiped a while back. The FSX section has 116,000 posts, and the FS9/8 section, 45,000. Truly if the unrepresentative population at SOH is representative of everyone else, there are obviously more FSX users. Oh wait, that's using your guys' logic.Sorry, nothing you asked was thought provoking. Just the usual misuse of statistics and denial that I've seen in every other FS9 vs FSX thread.Off to SQL class... enjoy the rest of the thread!Oh and before I go:Nope. There is nothing wrong with enjoying FS9. I enjoyed it for many thousands of hours myself. What is wrong is misusing statistics which in the end misleads people.

Hello WilliamI am not misleading anyone , this the FS9 forum so I am really preaching to the converted here.For the record when I was a college student 30+ years ago I also made fun of people with opposing views to my own.I grew out of it eventuallyEnjoy the SQL class, I will have a nice citation X flight instead :(

[psolk 3,108]

Kiwi,You advertise a commercial membership in your profile with a signature of commercial Beta Tester and a PMDG logo. It sure "appears" you are associating yourself with PMDG...Wolfgang, et al.. Anyone who comes into an FS9 forum and congratulates other members on handling us FS9 a really excited user is just trying to stir things up, don't even bother getting into it.While most of us have agreed we are lucky to have two sims to enjoy others feel they must still come in and demean other members... :( :( Don't get lured into another argument... I do agree it is sad to have a commercial membership profile and demean, belittle and laugh at other members. One thing you always have to give guys like Ryan from PMDG Jim from Hifi and Scoob from FeelThere just to name a few a lot of credit for is the fact they always remain respectful to other members and you will never catch them trolling for an argument.-PaulPS.... I do agree with William that the whole around the world race poll shows nothing more than out of 40 something guys that have probably been simming for a while a majority of them flew FS9... I do not agree with the attitude he came into this with, I think that is what Stephen, Jean-Paul, myself and others agreed on the other night.I think more interesting are the commercial developers who come in and contribute with their own stats that their sales are still 50/50 and companies like PMDG and Aerosoft show their sales highly skewed to FSX. It just goes to show this is not a black and white issue but a very bland shade of gray which are usually the ones most difficult to come to any agreement or resolution on... :( Regardless, they are companies trying to put food on their employees tables just like us and have to do what is best for their individual organizations and at the end of the day like it or not you must accept it...

[kiwikat 531]

I've expressed it many times on this forum before. I don't know why I am a commercial member. I've never made a penny off of FS. I've spent thousands, actually. I never chose to have a commercial membership.I'll express my opinion as anyone else does, thank you very much.I have no problem with people enjoying FS9. I have no problem with people saying FS9 is good for these x, y, z reasons. I don't even have a problem with people who choose to be a really excited user.I do have a problem with people misusing information to sway people the way they wish. I do have a problem when people accuse companies like PMDG as being part of some giant FSX a really excited user club. They are doing what sells. Get over it.The fact remains it is almost always FS9 people who bring these topics up. It is like FS9 users have to somehow reassure each other that they are still using the "in" sim in order for them to be happy. On other forums like SOH I never see anyone starting threads like this in the FSX area. It rarely happens here too. Just in the FS9 section here and at other popular forums. Your sim is in the decline. It will continue to be supported by fewer developers. FSX will continue to become more popular.Time for class.

[psolk 3,108]

Hmm, So I post this:PS.... I do agree with William that the whole around the world race poll shows nothing more than out of 40 something guys that have probably been simming for a while a majority of them flew FS9... I do not agree with the attitude he came into this with, I think that is what Stephen, Jean-Paul, myself and others agreed on the other night.I think more interesting are the commercial developers who come in and contribute with their own stats that their sales are still 50/50 and companies like PMDG and Aerosoft show their sales highly skewed to FSX. It just goes to show this is not a black and white issue but a very bland shade of gray which are usually the ones most difficult to come to any agreement or resolution on... Thinking.gif Regardless, they are companies trying to put food on their employees tables just like us and have to do what is best for their individual organizations and at the end of the day like it or not you must accept it...And you respond with the post below calling FS9 users a really excited user and adding more fuel to the fire. If these posts bother you so much then let all the "a really excited user" argue amongst themselves and eventually we will all go away...

I've expressed it many times on this forum before. I don't know why I am a commercial member. I've never made a penny off of FS. I've spent thousands, actually. I never chose to have a commercial membership.I'll express my opinion as anyone else does, thank you very much.I have no problem with people enjoying FS9. I have no problem with people saying FS9 is good for these x, y, z reasons. I don't even have a problem with people who choose to be a really excited user.I do have a problem with people misusing information to sway people the way they wish. I do have a problem when people accuse companies like PMDG as being part of some giant FSX a really excited user club. They are doing what sells. Get over it.The fact remains it is almost always FS9 people who bring these topics up. It is like FS9 users have to somehow reassure each other that they are still using the "in" sim in order for them to be happy. On other forums like SOH I never see anyone starting threads like this in the FSX area. It rarely happens here too. Just in the FS9 section here and at other popular forums. Your sim is in the decline. It will continue to be supported by fewer developers. FSX will continue to become more popular.Time for class.

I don't remember anyone accusing PMDG of being part of a ginat FSX a really excited user club in all 6 pages but I might have missed it. Regardless, knowing RSR he is not concerned of someone calling PMDG names in a forum if they can not come to terms with PMDG's business decisions and he certainly does not need anyone to defend his company, they need no defending. But you are in no position to tell anyone to get over their feelings, that is why they are entitled to them. And your entire last paragraph is not even worth responding too...

[strider 0]

Feedback can change developers' minds. Carenado announced they were going FSX-only, but reversed their decision when enough people said they were willing to pay for an FS9 version of their 172. Had FS9 users simply said "Oh well, those are the breaks" when Carenado initially announced they would stop making FS9 models, many simmers--and Carenado--would have been poorer for it.

Exactly!! Why is it every time we, as consumers, let a developer know our purchasing preferences, we get branded as some sort of rude fool? Of course PMDG and the rest can do as they see fit, but it's important to let them know where you stand. "If you don't make an FS9 version I won't be buying it"...threat? No...fact. We are giving our purchase requirements...they can do what they will with it but it IS important to let them know. Do I think it will make a difference? Obviously it has in some instances. I don't really care if your tired of hearing it...that's your problem, not mine. I've seen plenty of FSX'ers whine when a company says they are releasing for FS9 first. It's fine to badmouth a company if their decision goes against your wishes, apparently??? The discussion will continue whether you think it should or not...so get over it...you are the one's being rude whenever one of us FS9'ers states our preferences. The owners of this board could say something like "there will be NO MORE discussion of FS9 versus FSX product availability"...to what end...so we can all have a "warm fuzzy" and never get into any discussion which doesn't end up in hugs and kisses all around?? LOL! Look up the definition of "forum".FS9 forever. :(

[ryanbatc 13,103]

I think the FS9 and FSX users should have a big GROUP HUG!!! :(

[psolk 3,108]

I think the FS9 and FSX users should have a big GROUP HUG!!! :(

How dare you FSX user tell us FS9 users what we should do!!!! :( :(Cheers Ryan,-Paul

[Geofa 108]

I think the FS9 and FSX users should have a big GROUP HUG!!! :(

..that and finally bury the horse..

[WarpD 824]

..that and finally bury the horse..

I dunno... it's still wigglin'

[SpiritFlyer 987]

I dunno... it's still wigglin'

Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!! :(