Just to clarify, I never said that the 2d panel is more realistic; it is not for obvious reasons. I have been willing to give up the realism, perhaps because I do fly real planes, in order to have the ability to manipulate the aircraft better. Since I fly GA only in the real world, I almost never fly GA in the sim world. That said, when flying a 747, I have nothing to compare it to in the real world. Regarding TrackIR, I have considered getting this since it really does look like it would transform the experience. My only concern is that I would not want to do a great deal of tweaking. If all I fly are commercial jets (and the occasional ATR, etc.), would it be as simple as setting the system up once and you are good to go? Although it is expensive, TrackIR is not a monumental investment. If I was fairly certain it would make a difference in an easy manner, I would get it.Cheers, Pete

TrackIR is very easy to set up. You take a cap, you put the reflective parts on there, you put the IR camera ion your screen, and you install and launch the TrackIR software. Everything works without fuss form the beginning. If you do find you have a problem, please do not hesitate to come here and ask! Just one thing: make sure you have a good FPS. TrackIR is not really enjoyable if FPS aren't high enough, because you make quite rapid movements with your head. Seeing these movements all coppy in your VC detracts from the pleasure. in FS9 I cna now use it the way I always wanted to, because my FPS are really good. In FSX it is a more sensitive matter.

Threadjack continues! I don't see what's so terrible about that!-Greg

Wooow, Wooow, Wooow.... :( I was only asking in hopes someone cracked the code as to how to get side views to work in FSX when using 2D panels. If you're using 2D panels in this day and age where looking left and right gives you nothing but open air without internal cockpit windows/reference to each his own. I for one left that reality in FS more than 12 years ago. What I'm after is closely matching the environment a real plane gives me. With technology so far ahead of that kind of thing I didn't think someone using FSX would use it that way, I'm actually very surprised to say the least. The last time we had to operate FS like that was FS5.1 or FS95 I believe (back in 1993-95). Again if this is what makes you happy then all the best to you... :(

I was only asking in hopes someone cracked the code as to how to get side views to work in FSX when using 2D panels.

HAH! :) -Greg

Threadjack continues! Is it terrible that I prefer the fixed locations and clickpoints for controls, the ability to turn the subpanels on and off on a whim when I need them, and not having to pan around looking for the item I need to adjust?Is it terrible that I prefer being able to flip to the 2D mini-panel, giving me a rich full view of what is in front of me, rather than having to adjust my seat point or zoom up and forward in the VC?Is it terrible that I prefer how most 2D panels from airplane to airplane use a relatively consistent field of view and point of reference? I dislike how many VC's are zoomed in too much, zoomed out too wide, or generally different from plane to plane. Is it terrible that I prefer to have my side views unimpeded? If I had room for 2 more monitors, I'd have side views taken care of. When I look sideways, I am not hoping to see the windowframe or steering tiller, I want to look "out the window". A non-obstructed view is far more functional for this.I've tried using virtual cockpits on several occasions. I gave TrackIR a significant and fair trial (and yes, I spent many hours tweaking and adjusting the sensitivity and axis settings, even consulting with the NaturalPoint support folks for tips), but in the end I've found it to not be my style. Returned for my money back a few days after the 30-day return policy, no harm, no foul. Like many holdouts still in the "dark ages" with FS2004, I'll need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the VC world. Sure, I lose out on the ultimate in VC+TrackIR integration, which manifests itself in the ease in which you can fly the traffic pattern and keep an eye on your visual cues, but for me to gain that functionality I would have to lose many of the other things I consider more important. Virtual Cockpits are visually appealing and some are downright gorgeous, but for me all that pretty modeling cannot make up for their shortcomings in functionality. My computer screen is 2D... the interface is 2D... it is more efficient and natural to maintain this 2D interface paradigm rather than to push the interface into a 3D realm. If all I had to do was look at the panel, then a 3D one would be fine... If I could reach into my monitor and physically flip the switch by hand, 3D would be fine! But because it needs interaction, the three dimensional nature of a VC becomes a hindrance to me instead of a benefit. The beauty of VC's aren't worth the trouble of panning, zooming, adjusting eyepoints, and fighting with view management... especially considering I disliked the experience with one of the quintessential tools for effective VC use, TrackIR.I certainly do use VC's to demonstrate flight simulation to the curious visitors to my house who wonder what that "thing" is on my desk (the yoke). The VC's are indeed VERY visually impressive. But when it comes to my "active" flying, I just haven't yet been able to embrace them. Someday I might. Someday I might have to! But until then I'll keep enjoying my clear views, easy to maneuver panels, and my style of flying. Since you asked, I have been an ardent FSX user and supporter since day one.I don't think you're personally offended that people don't like virtual cockpits, but the tone of your question makes me think you do take some pity on us for not having "seen the light"... Let me assure you that you don't worry about us too much. While you might not be able to imagine a world without the virtual cockpit, we are all quite happy with our sim setups, preferences, and play styles. Just as I would evangelize the benefits of FSX to the FS2004 crowd for all its improvements, I know there are some parts of FSX which aren't suitable to all flying styles and preferences. The same can be said for 2D vs. VC - it just isn't for everyone. I don't see what's so terrible about that!-Greg

Thanks Greg, you saved me a LOT of typing, I couldnt have said it better!

Threadjack continues! Is it terrible that I prefer the fixed locations and clickpoints for controls, the ability to turn the subpanels on and off on a whim when I need them, and not having to pan around looking for the item I need to adjust?Is it terrible that I prefer being able to flip to the 2D mini-panel, giving me a rich full view of what is in front of me, rather than having to adjust my seat point or zoom up and forward in the VC?Is it terrible that I prefer how most 2D panels from airplane to airplane use a relatively consistent field of view and point of reference? I dislike how many VC's are zoomed in too much, zoomed out too wide, or generally different from plane to plane. Is it terrible that I prefer to have my side views unimpeded? If I had room for 2 more monitors, I'd have side views taken care of. When I look sideways, I am not hoping to see the windowframe or steering tiller, I want to look "out the window". A non-obstructed view is far more functional for this.I've tried using virtual cockpits on several occasions. I gave TrackIR a significant and fair trial (and yes, I spent many hours tweaking and adjusting the sensitivity and axis settings, even consulting with the NaturalPoint support folks for tips), but in the end I've found it to not be my style. Returned for my money back a few days after the 30-day return policy, no harm, no foul. Like many holdouts still in the "dark ages" with FS2004, I'll need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the VC world. Sure, I lose out on the ultimate in VC+TrackIR integration, which manifests itself in the ease in which you can fly the traffic pattern and keep an eye on your visual cues, but for me to gain that functionality I would have to lose many of the other things I consider more important. Virtual Cockpits are visually appealing and some are downright gorgeous, but for me all that pretty modeling cannot make up for their shortcomings in functionality. My computer screen is 2D... the interface is 2D... it is more efficient and natural to maintain this 2D interface paradigm rather than to push the interface into a 3D realm. If all I had to do was look at the panel, then a 3D one would be fine... If I could reach into my monitor and physically flip the switch by hand, 3D would be fine! But because it needs interaction, the three dimensional nature of a VC becomes a hindrance to me instead of a benefit. The beauty of VC's aren't worth the trouble of panning, zooming, adjusting eyepoints, and fighting with view management... especially considering I disliked the experience with one of the quintessential tools for effective VC use, TrackIR.I certainly do use VC's to demonstrate flight simulation to the curious visitors to my house who wonder what that "thing" is on my desk (the yoke). The VC's are indeed VERY visually impressive. But when it comes to my "active" flying, I just haven't yet been able to embrace them. Someday I might. Someday I might have to! But until then I'll keep enjoying my clear views, easy to maneuver panels, and my style of flying. Since you asked, I have been an ardent FSX user and supporter since day one.I don't think you're personally offended that people don't like virtual cockpits, but the tone of your question makes me think you do take some pity on us for not having "seen the light"... Let me assure you that you don't worry about us too much. While you might not be able to imagine a world without the virtual cockpit, we are all quite happy with our sim setups, preferences, and play styles. Just as I would evangelize the benefits of FSX to the FS2004 crowd for all its improvements, I know there are some parts of FSX which aren't suitable to all flying styles and preferences. The same can be said for 2D vs. VC - it just isn't for everyone. I don't see what's so terrible about that!-Greg

I couldn't agree with you more Greg, and your assessment of the drawbacks of the VC are right on. The fact is, It takes different things to make all of us happy. The two planes I bought that are VC only have seen little use because in the end, I fly what is most comfortable. It is truly grotesque when I think about the amount of addons I have purchased over the past few years ($$$$$$$!), but one thing remains the same...the feel of the 2d cockpit. It actually scares me a bit at the thought that one day none of these outstanding payware birds comes with a 2d option. Fortunately, I feel like I have enought to keep my busy forever. As Greg said, there is no need to pity anyone because of their preference. One man's junk is another man's treasure, and that holds true in all walks of life. Our hobby gets stronger with each new member, and having a choice will always equal more members. As far I am concerned, nothing can beat having a choice. Any airplance that comes out with a VC and a 2D is number one in my book since it gives us a choice. I can certainly understand when the VC fans get upset when there is no VC, because again, they don't get the choice. This day and age, choice is everything.Cheers, Pete

Ehm, where was that 727 thread again?

Ehm, where was that 727 thread again?

Bah - let's talk VC vs 2D!

Bah - let's talk VC vs 2D!

This has been a very interesting thread. We've shifted from 727's to TrackIR to VC versus 2D. Talk about an evolving conversation... :(