I think freeware is alive and well then :( There must be a whole lot of freeware in every payware project :)A $100,000 budget would make a premium aircraft 2/3 freeware in my mind.A developer could publish something paying an honest wage with that budget…but what I don't know?Looking at all the recent high-quality FSX releases - I have to think there’s a massive amount of hours that aren’t being accounted for. And what about incidental costs, like research and training? Geesh :(

That extraordinary figure is what all aspects of the process cost in paid wages covering all the research, documentation and advertising, and represent what a company like UBISOFT would pay to produce an addon, of course they don't do so but it does an admirable job of showing why it’s mostly " Ma & Pa " outfits doing addons, its almost always a hobby that got out of hand as nobody in their right mind would choose to do this for a living , it just sort of happens over time .

That extraordinary figure is what all aspects of the process cost in paid wages covering all the research, documentation and advertising, and represent what a company like UBISOFT would pay to produce an addon, of course they don't do so but it does an admirable job of showing why it’s mostly " Ma & Pa " outfits doing addons, its almost always a hobby that got out of hand as nobody in their right mind would choose to do this for a living , it just sort of happens over time .

I seem to remember Robert Randazzo suggesting it took between 5,000 and 10,000 hours to code the Fly2K 777 - and that was 10 years ago. To put that in perspective, 10,000 hours is equivalent of 5 people working full time jobs for a year....I can't imagine that that number has come down now that PMDG iscommited to the MSFS franchise.

I was just wondering if anyone knew how much it costs to develop a typical addon FSX plane (rough estimate). I hope someone from PMDG, etc. answers this. Thanks

Maybe it doesn't cost anything?What I mean, is that most designers are what I would call "enthusiasts". That is, they are FS fans who already own thier own computers at home, who got interested in design. After working on some freeware models, they realized they had some skill and decided to take a crack at payware. Now, since they already have a day job, a computer, software, and skill, there aren't a lot of additional costs they might incur, at least at first. I realize that not everyone fits this mold, i.e., there are 3D designers out there who earn their living selling their models, but I doubt they earn their living from FS models exclusively.Also, it's not like most of these companies have an office, with a team of designers in salaried positions, with benefits, etc. So they aren't going to have those expenses. When I think of company like Aerosoft (maybe they DO have an office), I am reminded that they are not necessarily the developer for their products, but a distributor.My impression is that most of these designers are seriously underpaid for their work, but they do it not for money, but for the enjoyment of their hobby. I would compare them to the "prosumer" category of amateur photographers, who invest serious amounts of money in their hobby with little chance of return. In the case of developers, the investment is time, not equipment. I'm sure there are additional expenses associated with research, outside contracting, advertising, etc.- Martin

That extraordinary figure is...(referring to $100,000)

I hope you’re being a little tongue in cheek :( calling it an extraordinary figure...IMO it’s low to represent a feasible game industry budget.IMO we’re seeing premium GA add-ons that would garner a true budget closer to $300,000-had they been built at say Ubisoft.That’s only a hunch so don’t hold me too it :)This is a guess…but it’s reasonable in my mind.Premium FSX GA Add-on (actual cost)Software..14 monthsArt..........21 months Physics....3 monthsProducer...3 monthsWriter.......2 monthsSound.......3 monthsQA...........1 monthsWeb.........1 monthsTotal.......48 monthsDon’t take the numbers too seriously but there is a lot of work that get's done.Martin, I think some add-ons are built that way, but in all likelihood your favorite one was built at a greater sacrifice.The new style add-ons are deceptively elaborate...hard to do well on hobby time.

I was just wondering if anyone knew how much it costs to develop a typical addon FSX plane (rough estimate). I hope someone from PMDG, etc. answers this. Thanks

Pay it out up front or on the backend. Either way it adds up very quickly and the costs/profit ratio is low and is the primary reason you have devs responding in negative ways to the bashers and outright liars in the community.Throw in a bit of theft and it all becomes quite a challenge.

Pay it out up front or on the backend. Either way it adds up very quickly and the costs/profit ratio is low and is the primary reason you have devs responding in negative ways to the bashers and outright liars in the community.Throw in a bit of theft and it all becomes quite a challenge.

From what I have seen the theft is quite a bit more than a bit....

Think we can get enough members to donate 100k so some high quality company does a good Gulfstream series?

From what I have seen the theft is quite a bit more than a bit....

Yup, looking for the tounge in cheek smily as we speak.:(

Why? Are you willing to foot the bill for a requested aircraft development.   IF so, I will start a company and make the aircraft for you.  :(

I'll answer phones! :(

My impression is that most of these designers are seriously underpaid for their work, but they do it not for money, but for the enjoyment of their hobby. I would compare them to the "prosumer" category of amateur photographers, who invest serious amounts of money in their hobby with little chance of return. In the case of developers, the investment is time, not equipment. I'm sure there are additional expenses associated with research, outside contracting, advertising, etc.- Martin

Bingo. Making flight sim add-ons is a creative outlet, something I enjoy doing. And that goes for pretty well 99 percent of us. It's a working hobby.If you're just out to make a quick buck and don't care about computers and flightsim, you won't last 2 minutes in hyper competitive flight sim add-on business.I'm sure if I totaled the time I put into versus the return, I'm working for less than the kid at McDonalds :( But I enjoy it so I don't care.Cheers,

I'm sure if I totaled the time I put into versus the return, I'm working for less than the kid at McDonalds :(

Bryan, I know that I am! I'm so poor I can barely afford to pay attention... :(

Yep ! , all good points , but we make some fine lemonade anyway .

:)

If the industry is so unprofitable them why does Aerosoft seem to have millions of Euro to throw at building a new simulator? Maybe they make all of their money on scenery but I get the impression that they do pretty well with their airplanes too. Maybe its that they focus on the most marketable planes? They also say that the US market is very small and retail PC titles are dead here due to the consols. Their distribution model focuses on Europe, predominately Germany it seems, and selling boxed software through retail channels. So maybe the problem is distribution. If you aren't making money there is a question begging - are you selling boxes into German retail?

Curiously scenery is the section of the market has done well during the recession, i have read that European packages were performing better than the titles from the U.S.A. Aerosoft is among the few production houses that qualify as " Big " , thus having a continuous series of releases and a large inventory that are key to generating a flow of revenue, that isn’t the situation for the majority of aircraft developers who might see a couple of releases a year maybe, perhaps a few more if they are a larger group, it takes months to produce an addon of any sort and the more people you throw at a job the faster they are done.Retailing boxed sets is the smallest segment of sales in any company i work with , at best i have to schlep to the post office a couple of times a month to send a package, occasionally a large order for a museum comes in but PC Games software is hard to get shelf space for, a trip through a retailer will show that Console Gaming predominates, this leads to the future of marketing for FS products.As a group Developers look to Flight Live with some reservations and hope , while no disclosures have been made specific to Flight addons being marketed there are some parallels that might be drawn from the system they use now for Xbox , there are two levels of products , the more expensive need to conform to a guideline that requires a specific level of performance standards and production values be met and vetted by MS and another category for productions that sell for much less and vary in quality.What this distribution paradigm has as an advantage is the end of pirated software as we know it, to my mind it also guarantees that there will be no backwards compatibility, the release of Flight will change the experience in ways we can’t imagine at this point, MS isn’t doing interviews on the subject and with NDA agreements in place nobody who does know is in a position to clarify more precisely the details, so we can only speculate and surmise , perhaps indulge in some deductive reasoning but little more for the moment.