I often find it difficult to bleed off excess energy during approach. With flaps etended, speed brakes cannot longer be used, and often gear and flaps don't generate enough drag even when on idle thrust. And I suppose idle throughout the last phase of approach is not desirable...Is it practicable to deploy slats/flaps before automatics tell me to do so (hollow magenta circles on speed tape), so that I eventually must use more thrust on the last mile(s), or would that be bad technique?

Slow down earlier during or before the approach begins. Usually for many aircraft you can slow down or go down but not both at the same time. Slow down first.

It sounds as if your whole approach profile is too fast!First check your minimums in the a/c manuel and then apply them to an imaginary ATC giving you speed references.intercept the localisor at 180 iasat 10dme hang out the washing compatible with gear deploymentapproaching the outer marker you should be slowing down to about 140iasand full flaps. This allows you to achieve VatDo not under any circumstances use speed brakes during your ILS/Vis approachvololiberista

I wish I could reach the Outer Marker at 140 kts ias! With a modest Cargo (40,000lbs) and say 15000 lbs fuel, my Arrow prefers 160+:(

Then you are arriving overweight!vololiberista

We are not arriving over weight... we are below the MLW... I use the computed speeds as given by the FMS, and they are regularly around 160KIAS for the weights...The MD11 does not approach at 140KIAS... unless it is nigh on empty... With a good cargo load on board, and below the MLW, this aircraft happily sails in at around 165KIAS, with a touch down speed of over 150KIAS. You go to 140KIAS at an operational landing weight at the outer marker and your speed protection will activate...Andrew

my advice is to leave the flaps and slats up and retracted until the speed is under control. Dont try using slats and flaps in an attempt to slow down, this doesnt work because as soon as you extend the slats, the engines spool up from flight idle to approach idle which cancels out the drag generated by the slats. Instead keep the airplane clean, slow down earlier, or if ATC wants you to keep speed up til on final, extend the speedbrakes and drop the gear if you have to.

On my last flight, I came in with a 140 REF (I forget the weight - if you want it, I can find it). I'm getting 151 REF with 183,917 pounds in the hold and only 14,000 pounds in the tanks remaining at touchdown.Pushing ZFW on takeoff (theoretical "full load"), I get 153 REF. APP speeds will be higher.Keeping the load low and still within CG limits, the REF is 129.There's a good range.

I wish I could reach the Outer Marker at 140 kts ias! With a modest Cargo (40,000lbs) and say 15000 lbs fuel, my Arrow prefers 160+:(

I hate to pour water on your message, but your signature images violate our policies big time. Only one image, and sized to not exceed our policies.

On my last flight, I came in with a 140 REF (I forget the weight - if you want it, I can find it). I'm getting 151 REF with 183,917 pounds in the hold and only 14,000 pounds in the tanks remaining at touchdown.Pushing ZFW on takeoff (theoretical "full load"), I get 153 REF. APP speeds will be higher.Keeping the load low and still within CG limits, the REF is 129.There's a good range.

I regularly land closer to the MLW, and haven't seen Vref much lower than 156...I pack her as full as I can get, since I go shorter haul and need less fuel... landing fuel is around 15K normally...Andrew

Guess that will always be a potential problem since even when planning with all winds etc. changes in weather can ruin the best descent planning...

This bird is fast on approach compare to the Boeings. Fly the recommended speed Vref+10 plus your gust allowance, which can be 156KIAS under load without problem. Fly her all the way to the runway, if you are on target speed touchdown with be positive without float.

I was not aware my signature voilates your policies "big time".I refer you to the signature RULES, thus:Signature Restrictions:1. Any Number of Images. 2. Images of ant size. 3. Any number of URL's4. Any number of lines.I am sorry my picture of OUR MD11 voilates your sensibilities in some way. I am sorry if you find it offensive in some way. I wonder if anyone else here is/was offended?Minorities like yourself sir are best keeping within a minority. ( You remind me of those people in our country who are paid to look in your dumpster to check you havn't thrown some rubbish away that you shouldn't have.)I shall remove myself from the forum.Happy flying.

If you have that attitude towards the writer (who IS the forum!!!) I'm sure you will be banned therefore there's no need to remove yourself! It will be done for you!!!!vololiberista

What kind of issues can ocurr if the speedbrakes are used when the slats are extended and the flaps at 15? I use them about 25% of the time to reduce speed on an approach to an autoland. I know your are not suppose use speedbrakes when slats and flaps are extended but I do anyway and after nine months I seen no bad results.Thank youMichael Cubine

What kind of issues can ocurr if the speedbrakes are used when the slats are extended and the flaps at 15? I use them about 25% of the time to reduce speed on an approach to an autoland. I know your are not suppose use speedbrakes when slats and flaps are extended but I do anyway and after nine months I seen no bad results.Thank youMichael Cubine

Well! For one, in the real world extending your speed brakes with or without flaps etc., effectively turns your a/c into a brick. You really do not want to do it anywhere on approach. The maxim "A good landing is made at the top of the glide slope!" holds very true so if you are having to use your speed brakes on approach and "even" with autoland you need to look carefully at what you are doing wrong! It sounds as though you are too fast all the way.vololiberista

[AERODYNAMICS]While the above is mostly true, I'd argue that the use of speedbrakes doesn't essentially turn your aircraft into a brick. The wings are still there, and still primarily functional at that. The only thing that is happening is that the wings are producing less lift. A more appropriate name for them would be the alternate 'spoilers' term. All they are doing is spoiling the lift. Because of that, for the same angle of attack, a descent will be at a higher rate without an increase in airspeed (because of the lost lift); or, for the same descent rate, a higher angle of attack will be necessary, which increases the deceleration rate. The ground setting for spoilers is essentially so high that it renders the wing nearly useless in term of lift production. This isn't so much to slow the aircraft down, rather, it is to transfer the weight of the aircraft from the wings (by spoiling the lift) to the landing gear, and therefore the brakes to make them more effective. In a similar manner, reverse thrust really doesn't produce much braking action (in comparison to the brakes), it is there to redirect thrust so that the brakes aren't fighting the idle thrust, which can still be significant.The spoilers are an integral part of the roll dynamic of the aircraft. When an aircraft is rolled right, the left wing aileron moves down to create both lift and a 3rd Law Dynamic to lift the left wing. With an increase in lift, there is also an increase in drag. On the right wing, the aileron moves up to create both a loss of lift and a 3rd Law Dynamic to drop the right wing. With the decrease in lift, there is also a decrease in drag. Primarily because of this, we need to use the rudder to coordinate turns (the different amounts of drag left to right yaw the aircraft into an uncoordinated condition). With the use of spoilers to assist the ailerons ('spoilerons'), the decrease in drag is somewhat mitigated by the increase in drag created by the spoiler deflection. Additionally, the spoiler deflection creates a 3rd Law Dynamic to push the right wing down. This also decreases the torque on the wing that would have been placed on the wing by the ailerons near the tip of the wing operating alone (this is also an argument for inboard ailerons).[/AERODYNAMICS]All the above is to say that using the spoilers on approach isn't entirely unsafe, and in order to turn, they are actually part of standard procedure. To me, use of spoilers usually means either ATC gave a late descent, or ATC gave pilot's discretion and lack of proper descent planning lead to a high approach.To be honest, as far as speed goes, the aircraft is designed to be left on the ATS through touchdown. The ATS working in conjunction with the FMS will calculate the appropriate speeds based on the weight of the aircraft (as you provided during the pre-flight INIT). To me, the Boeing model (i.e. "frame of mind") assumes speed intervention, but the MD model assumes you will leave the speed choice up to the aircraft.So, leave the speed alone. Follow the vertical path as calculated by the FMS, unless otherwise assigned by ATC, and deploy flaps as directed by the cues. I suggest taking a look at the approach charts for wherever you are flying. Often you will find an approach that says "Expect to cross at 10,000 / 250 Knots" over one of the fixes. This isn't programmed into the system often because it is ATC discretion, but it is generally what you'll get. If you're not online for ATC, set the "Expect to cross..." restrictions into the FMS because 95+% of the time you'll get that instruction in the real world anyway. Otherwise, the FMS will try to keep you high and fast for as long as possible because it is more efficient.Word rant over. I apologize for the length, but figured it should be said.