Ifly 737 NG FSX vs PMDG 737 NGX

[Vmc 0]

Jack_C,Why did you remove your "PMDG tech team" banner? Just curious.

[JBZ 13]

Not one single bit of humor in my statement. Why do you ask?

While I can't speak for him, I do have to agree with his statement. PMDG is not the only one that has taken the brunt of complaints and attacks. There are multiple instances where people have bashed iFly's product simply because it's not from PMDG. Many have made statements that the PMDG NGX is better than the iFly, yet they have flown neither. I don't think an honest comparison can be made by an average flight simmer, simply because the PMDG offering has yet to be released.Additionally, you yourself have made comments about the comparison between the two which, in my opinion, because you are a tester for PMDG is a bit unprofessional. No where will you find any of the iFly team members or testers speaking badly about PMDG's offering. Even speak of a comparison on their forum and they will put an immediate halt to the conversation.While I don't doubt that the PMDG product will be great, to me, there is definitely a difference between the two on professionalism. No comparison should be made until the NGX is released when the consumers can truly make up their own mind.

[Jack_C 1]

Hey Jeremy. I do partially with your statement. I havent said the iFly is not worth the money. Heck it is cheap for what is out there. What I am saying is the PMDG is more in depth. Heck look how long it has been in the making. I am just stating obvious points. Its like saying an A320 is more of an "electronic" airplane as opposed to an 737. Its not saying either one is crap or one is better than the other but it is just stating a fact. Nothing wrong with that at all.

[JBZ 13]

Hey Jeremy. I do partially with your statement. I havent said the iFly is not worth the money. Heck it is cheap for what is out there. What I am saying is the PMDG is more in depth. Heck look how long it has been in the making. I am just stating obvious points. Its like saying an A320 is more of an "electronic" airplane as opposed to an 737. Its not saying either one is crap or one is better than the other but it is just stating a fact. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I understand Jack, I didn't say that you said the iFly was crap, and because you are a professional pilot, I do take your word better over a desktop pilot's. However, you do have to understand, that because you are a tester for the developer, your word is onl going to go so far, at least with me.Case in point, do a search in google for the Omni Dual Saw and watch the commercial. It is a pretty impressive product and I almost bought one for my cockpit project. However, as a smart consumer, I then did a search about complaints, and what I found was pretty shocking to say the least.While I believe you when you say the PMDG product is more in depth, I won't believe any statements regarding system performance or ease of flight until I have it on my system. I only let marketing get me to a certain point.

[Tierborn 189]

If i didn't know better .. I would think these add ons where a couple of hundred bucks each. From feedback and reviews, the iFly is a solid offering and the PMDG will be as well. As a hobbyist, I cant see how having both is a bad thing. No real need for the my NGX is better than yours argument.

[Jack_C 1]

I understand Jack, I didn't say that you said the iFly was crap, and because you are a professional pilot, I do take your word better over a desktop pilot's. However, you do have to understand, that because you are a tester for the developer, your word is onl going to go so far, at least with me.Case in point, do a search in google for the Omni Dual Saw and watch the commercial. It is a pretty impressive product and I almost bought one for my cockpit project. However, as a smart consumer, I then did a search about complaints, and what I found was pretty shocking to say the least.While I believe you when you say the PMDG product is more in depth, I won't believe any statements regarding system performance or ease of flight until I have it on my system. I only let marketing get me to a certain point.

I hear ya. Someone would think my opinion might be biased and I can understand why but Pmdg has solid ground to stand on from releasing top notch addons in the past. I was asked to help out with the iFly months before I started helping with the PMDG. My choice is quite obvious who I decided to help out with but not because I thought anything bad about iFly but the reason being is I knew what PMDG is capable of. Not only are some of the staff developers, but pilots as well so they have a good understanding of the job they are doing. But like everyone has said their wallet will speak for them. I just want people to know how realistic this NGX really is so they can make an informed decision. If you seen some of my posts before about product reviews you would get what I mean when I take product opinion seriously. I hate to see people waste money on addons to find out they didn't get anything close to what they were expecting.

[mwilk 1,107]

I'm probably gonna get smoked by the masses for asking this question, so be it, I'm a big boy. Did the guys at iFly do something to p##s off the developers at PMDG? I check the PMDG forum on occasion, as I'm planning to buy that version too. Along the way, I've noticed the little sideway swipes and wisecracks aimed at the folks over at iFly. They never mention iFly by name, but since they're the only other developer with an NG for FSX, you didn't have to be a genius to figure out who the target was. Now, I'm not talking about forum posters,(you really can't control that unless it gets out of hand), but comments by the top people in the organization. In the latest update, Rob R. makes a comment in the thread about "And yes- you can download it using whatever browser you like..." in reference to some problems that iFly customers had downloading with Chrome. There have been other references to issues with FPS loss with the mouse pointer. There was a claim made of a 50% loss of frame rate. I've been flying the iFly NG since the day it came out. I have never experienced a 50% drop. I lose around 5-6 FPS at most. I lose 2-3 FPS with the J-41. I'm sure someone will look at the banner in my signature and say, "He works for iFly so of course he's put off." I don't. I was a 'Gift of Sight Contributor" so I had the opportunity to get the aircraft before it was released to the general public. The same holds true for the SP1 that's in beta now. My point is this. Everyone who has been in flight simming for any length of time is very well aware of PMDG's reputation for creating state of the art payware aircraft. I own almost all of them myself. I guess I just expected better of people who are as respected as you guys are. If iFly isn't a threat, and they haven't done anything to provoke you,why mention them at all? The folks at iFly don't do it and don't allow it on their forums. Why would you?

[Tierborn 189]

.......My point is this. Everyone who has been in flight simming for any length of time is very well aware of PMDG's reputation for creating state of the art payware aircraft. I own almost all of them myself. I guess I just expected better of people who are as respected as you guys are. If iFly isn't a threat, and they haven't done anything to provoke you,why mention them at all? The folks at iFly don't do it and don't allow it on their forums. Why would you?

I understand your expectation, but.....good aircraft doesn't automatically equal good character

[meshman 109]

I'm probably gonna get smoked by the masses for asking this question, so be it, I'm a big boy.

Nowhere is it written that the "fragile male ego" (FME) cannot be pumped up doing something as trivial as computer game design. Look around and witness fawning adulation over a preview screen or even a simple post saying "We're thinking of doing...". Hear that enough and the possessor of the FME will find it all feeds upon it's self and then becomes larger than life.My comments are not aimed at any particular company or individual, though I could name a "few" who have been infected by the FME syndrome. I have a term I call "the Orville Redenbacher moment", which is when one or more posters with FME start going after "someone", generally thought to be promoting their agenda. The moment refers to a microwavable popcorn that comes in handy as one sits back and watches the ego(s) go out of control.I've made a promise to a friend that should I ever become rich and famous as a FS developer that I will do my utmost to stay grounded and humbled. But if there's enough $$$ to move to Hawai'i, then all bets are off... :(

[slait 169]

Nowhere is it written that the "fragile male ego" (FME) cannot be pumped up doing something as trivial as computer game design. Look around and witness fawning adulation over a preview screen or even a simple post saying "We're thinking of doing...". Hear that enough and the possessor of the FME will find it all feeds upon it's self and then becomes larger than life.My comments are not aimed at any particular company or individual, though I could name a "few" who have been infected by the FME syndrome. I have a term I call "the Orville Redenbacher moment", which is when one or more posters with FME start going after "someone", generally thought to be promoting their agenda. The moment refers to a microwavable popcorn that comes in handy as one sits back and watches the ego(s) go out of control.I've made a promise to a friend that should I ever become rich and famous as a FS developer that I will do my utmost to stay grounded and humbled. But if there's enough $$$ to move to Hawai'i, then all bets are off... :(

On point as usual sir meshy. Glad to see you still haunting the scene and applying perspective when needed. Hope all is well in your world these days.

[mikea76 184]

I'm probably gonna get smoked by the masses for asking this question, so be it, I'm a big boy. Did the guys at iFly do something to p##s off the developers at PMDG? I check the PMDG forum on occasion, as I'm planning to buy that version too. Along the way, I've noticed the little sideway swipes and wisecracks aimed at the folks over at iFly. They never mention iFly by name, but since they're the only other developer with an NG for FSX, you didn't have to be a genius to figure out who the target was. Now, I'm not talking about forum posters,(you really can't control that unless it gets out of hand), but comments by the top people in the organization. In the latest update, Rob R. makes a comment in the thread about "And yes- you can download it using whatever browser you like..." in reference to some problems that iFly customers had downloading with Chrome. There have been other references to issues with FPS loss with the mouse pointer. There was a claim made of a 50% loss of frame rate. I've been flying the iFly NG since the day it came out. I have never experienced a 50% drop. I lose around 5-6 FPS at most. I lose 2-3 FPS with the J-41. I'm sure someone will look at the banner in my signature and say, "He works for iFly so of course he's put off." I don't. I was a 'Gift of Sight Contributor" so I had the opportunity to get the aircraft before it was released to the general public. The same holds true for the SP1 that's in beta now. My point is this. Everyone who has been in flight simming for any length of time is very well aware of PMDG's reputation for creating state of the art payware aircraft. I own almost all of them myself. I guess I just expected better of people who are as respected as you guys are. If iFly isn't a threat, and they haven't done anything to provoke you,why mention them at all? The folks at iFly don't do it and don't allow it on their forums. Why would you?

Well all the things they pointed out is true so it's fair game it's not like PMDG was making up lies and saying the IFLY makes you impotent or some other crazy crap that was not true. Really Who knows why the PMDG guys keep digging at them, but that is the business world and competing developers are not going to sit around a campfire and hold hands.. I heard some crazy talk back when the Ifly was released saying that PMDG should congratulate the Ifly team for getting their plane out to market first... LOL really.. are these people serious, welcome to the real world this is not frigging little league where everybody plays a few innings and shakes hands . Plus I think some of that is because of the people who have been attacking PMDG about how long it has taken to release the NGX. So they in turn point out how the competitor rushed a unfinished product to market ( they did, don't even try to pretend they did not) BTW I don't blame them for rushing their NG to the market.. They had to get their product to maket at least 30 days before the PMDG plane hit that market. As far as the mouse on the VC goes... I have a pretty decent system ( 2500k OC'ed to 4.7 8 gigs ram, gtx 570) and I drop from a locked 30 to sometimes as low as 15 fps with the mouse. All I run is the IFLY, radar contact and mytraffic x... nothing else. I even did a fresh install with nothing but the IFLY still looses 25-50 percent with the mouse on the screen. HOW THE HELL is a OC'ed SB loosing that many frames with the mouse on the screen if there is not a problem, anyway I bought the Ifly to use until the NGX comes out and it has served it's purpose and it's a ok average plane, nothing groundbreaking but decent, but with some flaws that really need to be fixed and obviously rushed but it is serviceable. I feel the IFLY was worth the money I paid for it and as I said it did it's job of getting me by a few months until the NGX comes out. You can tell by the videos posted and the screenshots that the NGX is going to be a groundbreaking product. Hell lets just compare the night lighting.. something as simple as that. On the Ifly you have very little control and the panel lights come on based on time of day. in the pmdg EVERY light switch works and can be individually controlled.. I could go on but I am not because from the updates we have all seen it is clearly no contest.Lets not be frauds here, we all know any serious simmer that likes HIFI planes is not going to skip the NGX because they took too long or because of this little smack talk

[PIC007 82]

I see more nonsense about the IFly is still flying (pun intended). People who have a problem with it usually blame the plane for the shortcomings of their own systems. I dont care if you have a Cray computer, if it isnt set up for FSX correctly, you will still have poor performance.There is not a plane released in the history of FS that hasn't launched with problems, and PMDG is no exception, as users will find out when it's released.There are some small issues with the IFly and they are burning the midnight oil to get a service pack out, as does any reputable developer. This difference for me between IFly and PMDG isn't the quality of the product, it's the attitude of the developer, and IMHO, PMDG's is one of the worst. Their arrogant condescending attiude leaves a LOT to be desired and I for 1 will not now, or ever, support them, until they change that.Remember the days of Capt Sim's attitude problem? Some folks should take a lesson on how to learn from their mistakes, like CS did, it might do wonders for the bottom line.

[BIGSKY 316]

Captain Sim still has not fixed my 757,PMDG's 737NGX will not need "fixing"

[mikea76 184]

I see more nonsense about the IFly is still flying (pun intended). People who have a problem with it usually blame the plane for the shortcomings of their own systems. I dont care if you have a Cray computer, if it isnt set up for FSX correctly, you will still have poor performance.There is not a plane released in the history of FS that hasn't launched with problems, and PMDG is no exception, as users will find out when it's released.There are some small issues with the IFly and they are burning the midnight oil to get a service pack out, as does any reputable developer. This difference for me between IFly and PMDG isn't the quality of the product, it's the attitude of the developer, and IMHO, PMDG's is one of the worst. Their arrogant condescending attiude leaves a LOT to be desired and I for 1 will not now, or ever, support them, until they change that.Remember the days of Capt Sim's attitude problem? Some folks should take a lesson on how to learn from their mistakes, like CS did, it might do wonders for the bottom line.

Of course it's my system, or maybe I downloaded it using chrome with the UAC on and anti virus running. OK being serious for a minute, they have a issue.. IFLY has even admitted they have a issue and can not fix it, they even asked outside developers for help but they still can't fix it.I have tried everything fresh install, removed all my other addons and planes except the IFLY and a few basics I need to enojy FS.. I tried every tweak I could find. It loose frames with the mouse on the screen... LOTS of frames period end of story and they said the have no fix for it. My other add on planes did not loose anywhere near the frames the IFLY does with the mouse on the screen. There is other issues too but it don't matter I still feel like the IFLY plane is well worth the money and even with the mouse on the screen it's still flyable, but for somebody with a older system it would not be flyable with the mouse on the vc. Anyway what I take a issue with is people trying to pretend the NGX is not going to be a more advanced deeper sim because they are ###### at PMDG for some reason. BTW you guys are right IFLY has not taken shots at PMDG.. Probably because they can't. You need to have a better track record and product too be able to do it. I don't understand why people are ###### at them, so what if they are a little arrogant, that is a sign of being good.

[CoolP 283]

Captain Sim still has not fixed my 757,PMDG's 737NGX will not need "fixing"

Oh, a look into the assumed future. Is she running in final now? :rolleyes:The MD11 still needs some fixes (since two years), the J41 does to (since one) and the hold function isn't even modelled there. That's detail in the ways of 'we are so good and our competitors suck'?People raised eyebrows when QW announced the 787, because they are relying on a fictional data portion there, but nobody ever complained about the PMDG 747-8, being an external model only, having nothing in common with the real 747-8.Different perception, huh?Well, the point in the critics towards PMDG is their attitude, in case you didn't notice so far. So flaws aren't a problem if you leave the constant self praises and the bashing out. Easy, isn't it?It's a big difference if you proclaim to be a pro or if you act like one. Acting surprised about upside down forum moods, necessary thread deletions or closures and also stating very funny methods about e. g. 'measuring' piracy numbers don't show such acting. Getting upset when your competitor releases his model and feeling the need to stress that you are 'in beta since a month now' also doesn't show very professional acting but reveals some other things.Also, no other company around danced such a long way around the simple decision of printable pdf manuals and no other company around feels the need to bash other products while showing some disastrous planning skill at the same time.Good designers and coders don't make good business drivers. Is that news?And, ladies and gentlemen, if you relate 'being arrogant' to 'being good' while also justifying some of those direct and indirect bashing actions, I'd say that you still need to meet people which are really good. If you have to stress that you are oh so good, I'd say that you are much closer to the opposite and this bashing doesn't show simple arrogance, but a lack of personality and real confidence.Well, it's all about preference of course. If guys feel happy about fancy pics and forget about all the rest then, one has to respect that.I still believe that the strong 'wannabe' force of some flight sim fans is the major driving behind getting 'the most realistic addon' while, at the same time, they don't seem to realize attitudes and flaws. So, are they really using this detailed stuff or do they just need it to lift some ego? Open question, all answers respected.