So you are a victim, Jack? Did I get that right?The rw Captain calling me a 'hypocrit' (sic!) now is offended because he doesn't read my posts (but quotes them) and acts surprised if I correct him on the actual reading? Great show. Grotesque in my eyes.I don't use strong language here and I don't applaud to people calling others 'jerk', that's you, Jack.Strange thing that people mention PMDG only in the bashing aspect? Maybe they are the only dev out there making use of this tendency and, please, visit their forums to catch a glimpse or just read your own posts on some aspects, as you still had that banner in your sig.I know, all critics must be fan boys and all folks not stopping on this 'a really excited user attack' are haters. Is it that easy, Captain?I'd say that even more of that 'they are so bad' bias of yours now shows up, Jack. Go ahead. :(

"What I find interesting is how PMDG is so evil for taking awhile to fix stuff and IFLY is a hero for rushing a product out the door missing a lot of stuff, like how they KNEW before release that the night lighting was broken. How the hud is only in the BBJ. small things that should have been caught like no landing sounds on the 600-700. Why did they not wait until after these fixes were done before releasing?" But it "seems" you think that is OK for them to do that.

It is stated above, in many posts, but I guess you didn't read it so far: Flaws and bugs aren't a problem at all if the attitude is positive. Bashing others and letting existing customers wait for years on patches don't mix up to a great outcome. Is that news to you?Add arrogance and finger pointing to it and you get what you are actually upset about. :wink:You won't find many valid customers actually avoiding the official forums of their favourite dev. At PMDG, you find many of them. Reason? Ever imagined?So maybe calm down, relax and analyse what is there and given. This will help the guys at PMDG too, that's for sure.There's no tendency to bash at PMDG in this thread, there's one to help and show, with a less biased view. :smile:You've also quoted one very vital sentence there, but I have doubts that you've spotted the potential so far.

Yeah, it must be perfectly normal to show confidence by bashing others while lacking own qualities.

Show me where an actual PMDG member bashed iFly's team? If your definition of bashing is saying "Now this is a REAL NGX VC" or something to that effect... then lol...

Its never explicit .. normally, hidden with phrases like "the other guy".... Which in theory could be any of its competitors.

Again, when did an actual member of the PMDG dev team say "iFly's VC is icky, here's a pic from our version?"

Ryan, to assume from the fact of your personal reception about the one of others is at least short-sighted, if not purely egoistic.I don't have to follow that train, do I?I you think that a great mind shows up in the bashing of others, the first great mind to meet is still to come.Maybe we can conclude that Ryanbatcund doesn't feel like PMDG bashes other devs while other people actually do. This would at least be a more tolerant summarisation.

then lol

At least you take it with a smile. :(

Maybe we can conclude that Ryanbatcund doesn't feel like PMDG bashes other devs while other people actually do. This would at least be a more tolerant summarisation.

When did he actually say this? You criticize others for not reading your posts, yet you don't seem to read anyone elses..He's pointing out that PMDG have not explicitly mentioned iFly in any of their so called 'bashings'. What PMDG is doing is called advertising, you may not like it but I think you should get over it. This is what businesses do, especially when they have the same product!

Ryan, to assume from the fact of your personal reception about the one of others is at least short-sighted, if not purely egoistic.

ROFLMAO! So I can't voice my opinion but you can yours?*sigh*Anyway this thread is perfect advertising for both devs.... check out all the heat! :(

Advertising. I will mark that word when it comes to those methods used. Thanks for your viewpoint there. :smile:See? I've actually read your post.Guys, what are you trying now? How can, in your words, one guy trigger such a reaction when there's nothing to talk about?How come that numerous people state, in this very thread, that they at least sense this sort of bashing too (at PMDG only) while you folks seem to describe the clear blue sky?It's enlightening that some of you relate arrogance to geniuses or advertising to bashing, but it does not satisfy the thinking of all people around, it most likely never will.So what are you fighting for or against? Different viewpoints, different biases (both things are valid) or just for the fun of it? (not so valid)

ROFLMAO! So I can't voice my opinion but you can yours?

I actually more than respected the existence of yours with my writing (just read the next paragraph). The only people writing 'lol', 'jerk' or 'hypocrite' about mine are? :rolleyes:Feel offended when I call this what it is? Showing some class.I'm ok if you guys think it's ok to bash instead of deliver, to finger point instead of fixing own flaws. I was ok when entering this thread, I just don't understand it, that's all.And I also doubt that it helps the actual PMDG business.

How come that numerous people state, in this very thread, that they at least sense this sort of bashing too (at PMDG only) while you folks seem to describe the clear blue sky?

It's called opinion. :(

...or advertising to bashing

I'll refer you to some examples:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kcx1gjx4rkAnd a more famous and well known one:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siSHJfPWxs8See? These are clearly advertisements where they are stating how better their product is by what some people are calling 'bashing'. What's wrong with PMDG doing the same?

CoolP, you are going to pull that victim thing on me now too? Didn't you just pull that on someone. Anyways, short and sweet. Your credibility is completely shot now. At first I thought that PMDG might have made some errors, possibly, in your dealing with them. As I can see now I was wrong. Please don't try and match wits. That would be futile on your end of things. You are nothing but an angered individual. If you want to discuss this further, please, give me a call. I will even give you my phone number but we both know you won't because anonymity is so much easier when you want to bash people.

What's wrong with PMDG doing the same?

Well, I'd say first of all PMDG can't deliver, second they need to fix their existent stuff and third .. look at the 'great' outcome of the bashy thing, which obviously seems to happen since you are already justifying it. Just stating this, because Ryan asked for some proof. :smile:But you spots don't show how those companies act on the support side, or how people think about their forums.

Your credibility is completely shot now.

If you say so, Jack. :( So the people calling me names own the credibility now, right? Paradox.I'd say that my force isn't anonymity but simple logics. I doubt that any given name would lead to a better behaviour of yours since you are the one calling me names, not the other way around, Jack. :wink:Discussions tend to show different viewpoints, but to override them with sentences like above isn't convincing at all.I'd say it's a threads end since you guys violate the mood in a way forcing others to leave in my humble eyes. Only spectators now or repeated arrangements, which is sad.

Well, I'd say first of all PMDG can't deliver, second they need to fix their existent stuff and third .. look at the 'great' outcome of the bashy thing, which obviously seems to happen since you are already justifying it. Just stating this, because Ryan asked for some proof. :smile:But you spots don't show how those companies act on the support side, or how people think about their forums.If you say so, Jack. :( So the people calling me names own the credibility now, right? Paradox.I'd say that my force isn't anonymity but simple logics. I doubt that any given name would lead to a better behaviour of yours since you are the one calling me names, not the other way around, Jack. :(

No you are obvious just an angered individual. That's all. I wasn't referring to names on here when I mentioned being anonymous. I meant by discussing this further, give me a call. But that isn't anonymous enough for you.

Well, I'd say first of all PMDG can't deliver, second they need to fix their existent stuff and third .. look at the 'great' outcome of the bashy thing, which obviously seems to happen since you are already justifying it. Just stating this, because Ryan asked for some proof. :smile:But you spots don't show how those companies act on the support side, or how people think about their forums.If you say so, Jack. :( So the people calling me names own the credibility now, right? Paradox.I'd say that my force isn't anonymity but simple logics. I doubt that any given name would lead to a better behaviour of yours since you are the one calling me names, not the other way around, Jack. :wink:Discussions tend to show different viewpoints, but to override them with sentences like above isn't convincing at all.I'd say it's a threads end since you guys violate the mood in a way forcing others to leave in my humble eyes. Only spectators now, which is sad.

Thats because all credibility is flushed.

This thread reminds me of this...Hey at least Jack is willing to give you his phone number!I still want evidence of actual PMDG developers bashing iFly. Yes, I've seen users do it... I'll call the kettle black. I believe the beta PMDG version is superior in every way. My opinion only. If you define that as bashing... maybe grow a thicker skin - it will help in the long run.

first of all PMDG can't deliver

On what basis do you make this assumption? I am no PDMG a really excited user, but from their previous products it is clear that their simulations set a benchmark for other developers to measure from and even aim for. Now, I'm not saying that they will deliver or they won't as there is no way for us to truly know as of yet. Only time will tell!

second they need to fix their existent stuff

What's this got to do with the NGX? Their previous products are irrelevant to the way in which they give updates and advertise. PMDG have stated what they believe are the reasons why their NGX is better than the competitors.

This thread reminds me of this...

Thanks for showing some class again, guys. :( I hope you don't feel offended when I state that appropriate posting may be some way off your current paths.If one wonders how some people can accept bashing of any kind, he just has to watch such posts to catch a glimpse I guess.I think the line was crossed.

first of all PMDG can't deliver

On what basis do you make this assumption?

Easy. Can you buy the PMDG NGX right now?Does it help to let MD-11 and J-41 users out in the rain for years to get the other thing out?Does it help even more to 'advertise' in the bashy way while in that no delivery and no fixes state?Ask yourself, the outcome may vary from person to person, but some will tend to say that a nice package can be achieved in much better and more reliable ways. Other devs or some suggestions in this very thread already show some.If arrogance blocks business drivers and if people like the insulting ones around do your 'advertising' then, you maybe have to fear some numbers or competitors more than necessary. Sad thing if your quality maybe is so far above other's.Just get some good product out, patch it if needed, keep the people and forum mood happy, show that you care .. you've already read some of those things and they all don't need any bashing, right?

This thread has turned into Coolp's opinion vs. the world as it has in some other threads of late.How about getting back to talking about the two products and not whether or not PMDG has made disparaging remarks about iFly.We've already established that Coolp and a handful of others dont like the way PMDG operates. Ok fine, rather go around in circles that goes nowhere, how about dropping that subject and talking about the actual planes and not the people who make them.