http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/07/19/7106446-internet-rallies-around-flier-accused-of-groping-tsa-agent?GT1=43001The TSA can grope old women, send out full body scans of women in emails, let people with shoe-bombs and shotguns through, and all the while be completely rude to the travelling public, yet something happens to them and there is complete outrage. Personally, I don't buy the phony outrage and question if this incident really even happened.The TSA needs to get its stuff together. Frankly, there is an obvious lack of training, oversight, and autonomy for the actions of these people.

TSA is one of the most hated agencies of the US Government. Rightfully so as most of the agency is dysfunctional and unqualified. That being said, if you can't handle it, don't fly in the US. Flying isn't a right, but a privilege and therefore one should fly expecting a pat down. If the woman groped someone and that is proven to be the case, she should be charged accordingly.

TSA is one of the most hated agencies of the US Government. Rightfully so as most of the agency is dysfunctional and unqualified. That being said, if you can't handle it, don't fly in the US. Flying isn't a right, but a privilege and therefore one should fly expecting a pat down. If the woman groped someone and that is proven to be the case, she should be charged accordingly.

The thing is, whether it's a privilege or a right, travellers need protection against abuse and harrassment too. It's kind of like you can be assualted by a cop even if you're innocent and they made a mistake, but the minute you try to defend yourself, you're now charged with several felonies, probably something like, evading arrest, resisting arrest, assualt on law enforcement official, obstruction of justice, on and on. It's not really fair. The saddest part is, there is nothing we can do in any case except maybe a big lawsuit, except now after "tort reform" you'd be lucky to get enough to pay your psychologist and physician's bills.Or you could win the lottery, buy your own aircraft, and skip all the nonsense.

Or you could win the lottery, buy your own aircraft, and skip all the nonsense.

Until the TSA manages to find some excuse to further their mission creep, and you're friendly GA ramp at Podunk field will be classified as a sterile area, and you'll need to be a whole body scan / grope to take the J3 up for a few laps in the pattern on a Sunday morning.

The thing is, whether it's a privilege or a right, travellers need protection against abuse and harrassment too. It's kind of like you can be assualted by a cop even if you're innocent and they made a mistake, but the minute you try to defend yourself, you're now charged with several felonies, probably something like, evading arrest, resisting arrest, assualt on law enforcement official, obstruction of justice, on and on. It's not really fair. The saddest part is, there is nothing we can do in any case except maybe a big lawsuit, except now after "tort reform" you'd be lucky to get enough to pay your psychologist and physician's bills.Or you could win the lottery, buy your own aircraft, and skip all the nonsense.

Fair enough, but in the case of groping an agent... No excuse. Of course that's the context I make such bold statements as my first post. Otherwise I share a balanced view like yours.Both sides need protection.I'm going to avoid your tort reform comments. Too close to an Av. Law class for me. :(

Personally I dont see what the big deal over the TSA pat downs are. Earlier this year my girlfriend and I flew from Dallas to San Juan Puerto Rico. We decided to go ahead and opt for the pat down over the full body scan just to see if it was as big a deal as what I have read about on the net. I must say that in my experience it was not a big deal at all, even less intrusive that what I thought it would be. The TSA guy didn't fondle my genitals or do any touching that I would consider inappropriate. I also watched as the female TSA agent did the pat down on my girlfriend and it was about the same as mine. My girlfriend said that she felt very comfortable with the whole process and didn't in any way feel violated, nor were her genitals groped or fondled. In my experience both the male and female TSA agent acted very professional and didn't do anything that I would consider going beyond the scope of what they are supposed to be doing. Of course that's not to say that there cant be a few bad apples out there that take the pat down a little farther than they should, just as their are cops out there who can abuse their privaledges and be over agressive when taking someone down. When I think of the word "groping" I imagine someone getting felt up (male taking advantage of a helpless female) in a situation that is out of control, most likely in an isolated location out of view by most people, and beyond the means of what they are confortable with. When I went thru the TSA pat down I volenteered for it since I could have gone thru the body scanner machine and it was by no means an out of control guy just feeling my body in a sexual manner and of course we were out in the open where everyone could see. After it was all over my girlfriend and I were joking with the two TSA agents about all the yahoos who complain about it and say that they are fondling people and touching them inappropriately.

Security gave me a pat-down at Lisbon on the way back home to UK last May. No big deal, no groping; permission was politely requested and it was in front of the rest of the queue. Never happened to me there before, but Bin Laden had recently been whacked so I guess all major airports were on high alert in case of reprisals.It's just the times we live in.

In my experience both the male and female TSA agent acted very professional and didn't do anything that I would consider going beyond the scope of what they are supposed to be doing. Of course that's not to say that there cant be a few bad apples out there that take the pat down a little farther than they should, just as their are cops out there who can abuse their privaledges and be over agressive when taking someone down. When I think of the word "groping" I imagine someone getting felt up (male taking advantage of a helpless female) in a situation that is out of control, most likely in an isolated location out of view by most people, and beyond the means of what they are confortable with. When I went thru the TSA pat down I volenteered for it since I could have gone thru the body scanner machine and it was by no means an out of control guy just feeling my body in a sexual manner and of course we were out in the open where everyone could see. After it was all over my girlfriend and I were joking with the two TSA agents about all the yahoos who complain about it and say that they are fondling people and touching them inappropriately.

And how often do you travel? People who have been abused and harrassed by the TSA are "yahoos" in your opinion and I think that reflects a sad truth in our society, that people would rather just look the other way when a crime is being committed.

I am greatful I do not live in the Northern Hemisphere. You guys are absolutely nuts up there. Maybe it is the air up there or something. It is more then just the USA as Canada, UK and Europe has gone down this same path as well.Most countries down here still don't have screening on domestic flights, my country included. We worry mostly about what food is coming into the country.Their is more security around a gated comunity in the USA then around any of our government buildings in my country. Our cops still do not carry fire arms. Lots of Americans moved here to get away and I don't blame them. We have a strong economy and good opportunities without that paronoia daily lifestyle. Have some good friends down here now living the dream that you guys sold out on years ago (even before 911). Cheers.

And how often do you travel?

Fairly often, more than most but less than some.

People who have been abused and harrassed by the TSA are "yahoos" in your opinion and I think that reflects a sad truth in our society, that people would rather just look the other way when a crime is being committed.

I probably shouldn't have used the term "yahoos" in a public forum, but I was refering to those who have done the pat down and had nothing that would generally be considered offensive but still find something to complain about. Now I wouldn't call someone a "yahoo" if indeed they truely had being abused or harrassed by TSA. I would have to see a video of one of these incidents where someone claimed they were abused or harrassed to see what happened with my own two eyes. I'm not saying some of the reported incidents couldn't have happened, but without seeing it I wouldn't give the accuser any more sympathy that I would give the agent scorn. I wouldn't doubt that in some of the cases the one getting screened went into it with a bad attitude to start with, probably got verbally abusive to the agent, then the situation probably esclated from there. Then of course the guy who started it would claim the TSA agent abused him and so on and do fourth.After being around people in public and working in various fields that includes being in contact with customers and the public in general, I have always found that there are those who are always looking to find something wrong and something to complain about, no matter how good the situation is. Years ago I was in retail banking and I was showing a customer to my desk, I was standing to the left of the lady, put my left arm out pointing to my desk and put my right hand ever so slightly on the top of her back for only a second or two. The lady who I could tell was already in a mood to start with told be to get my hand off her. After we were done she said to the manager that she didn't appreciate my "touching" of her. Later when my manager asked me what happened I explained to her and we watched the lobby video back. Of course the manager and I had a good chuckle over it when he saw the video of me touch the ladies back for a second while I pointed her to my desk. So in that case I would call the lady a yahoo for complaining about me "touching" her for a second when all I was trying to do was be polite and courteous. The way I would relate this to the TSA is that some people know matter how you touch them are going to have a fit and cry wolf and of course as we see here in the forums on pretty much a daily basis, some people love to complain and nothing is ever going to satisfy everyone.Of course there are others who will complain and moan about the whole deal and how it such an invasion of privacy, yadda yadda, etc. I've found life is to short to be in a bad mood and complain. If something doesn't suite me then I dont do, period, but I dont like to waste a lot of time moaning about it.

I am greatful I do not live in the Northern Hemisphere. You guys are absolutely nuts up there. Maybe it is the air up there or something. It is more then just the USA as Canada, UK and Europe has gone down this same path as well.Most countries down here still don't have screening on domestic flights, my country included. We worry mostly about what food is coming into the country.Their is more security around a gated comunity in the USA then around any of our government buildings in my country. Our cops still do not carry fire arms. Lots of Americans moved here to get away and I don't blame them. We have a strong economy and good opportunities without that paronoia daily lifestyle. Have some good friends down here now living the dream that you guys sold out on years ago (even before 911).

It's not as bad as you make it sound, lol. I live a great life, go where I want and do what I please and am not harrassed by anyone. You make it sound like we are living in a jail yard. My friends and associates never talk about or feel like were are living in a gated community. We all travel and do what ever we want with no hassel from authorities. No country is perfect, but living in the US isn't bad at all and certainly not live how you make it sound.As far as the economy goes, the only ones you will find complaining are those that dont have any money or live with without fiscal discipline. By living without fiscal discipline, I mean those individuals who live beyond their means, and trust me, in the US it seems that the vast majority try to live beyond their means and when they lose a job their whole life falls apart since they never had the discipline to save money and actually buy what they can afford. If a lot of Americans weren't so caught up in "Keeping up with the Joneses" so to speak, a lot more people would be a lot better off if they would save money and not try to be such show-offs by driving expensive cars they really can't afford and houses that are way more expensive that what they really should be living in.

It's not as bad as you make it sound, lol. I live a great life, go where I want and do what I please and am not harrassed by anyone. You make it sound like we are living in a jail yard. My friends and associates never talk about or feel like were are living in a gated community. We all travel and do what ever we want with no hassel from authorities. No country is perfect, but living in the US isn't bad at all and certainly not live how you make it sound.

I know. I love America really. When you haven't been there for a while and read these reports it gives you a tunnel vision on how things really are. I was just up in New York City last January and had a blast.I got my friend that just moved down here from North Carolina to New Zealand and has shipped his 1958 Mercury with him. It will be the only one of this car in this part of the world. He is loving it here so far, but talking to him makes me miss the USA and Canada sometimes. Once you get past the TSA you guys have amazing things to see and do up there. I need to do another cross country road trip next summer.Take a trip down here sometime and discover what Island living is like. As a Texan once told me...'We will treat you 100 different ways you will be bound to like on or two of them..' - Texas is an awesome state...Hopefully the heat's not getting to ya this summer. I hear it is real hot right now.Cheers.

I know. I love America really. When you haven't been there for a while and read these reports it gives you a tunnel vision on how things really are. I was just up in New York City last January and had a blast.I got my friend that just moved down here from North Carolina to New Zealand and has shipped his 1958 Mercury with him. It will be the only one of this car in this part of the world. He is loving it here so far, but talking to him makes me miss the USA and Canada sometimes. Once you get past the TSA you guys have amazing things to see and do up there. I need to do another cross country road trip next summer.Take a trip down here sometime and discover what Island living is like. As a Texan once told me...'We will treat you 100 different ways you will be bound to like on or two of them..' - Texas is an awesome state...Hopefully the heat's not getting to ya this summer. I hear it is real hot right now.Cheers.

I'll trade with ya for a bit. NC to NZ. :(

I'll trade with ya for a bit. NC to NZ. :(

Sure...Haven't been to Cape Hatteras for about 10 years now. Surfing is not as good but still a great place to be in the summer...Cheers

Personally I dont see what the big deal over the TSA pat downs are. Earlier this year my girlfriend and I flew from Dallas to San Juan Puerto Rico. We decided to go ahead and opt for the pat down over the full body scan just to see if it was as big a deal as what I have read about on the net. I must say that in my experience it was not a big deal at all, even less intrusive that what I thought it would be. The TSA guy didn't fondle my genitals or do any touching that I would consider inappropriate. I also watched as the female TSA agent did the pat down on my girlfriend and it was about the same as mine. My girlfriend said that she felt very comfortable with the whole process and didn't in any way feel violated, nor were her genitals groped or fondled. In my experience both the male and female TSA agent acted very professional and didn't do anything that I would consider going beyond the scope of what they are supposed to be doing. Of course that's not to say that there cant be a few bad apples out there that take the pat down a little farther than they should, just as their are cops out there who can abuse their privaledges and be over agressive when taking someone down. When I think of the word "groping" I imagine someone getting felt up (male taking advantage of a helpless female) in a situation that is out of control, most likely in an isolated location out of view by most people, and beyond the means of what they are confortable with. When I went thru the TSA pat down I volenteered for it since I could have gone thru the body scanner machine and it was by no means an out of control guy just feeling my body in a sexual manner and of course we were out in the open where everyone could see. After it was all over my girlfriend and I were joking with the two TSA agents about all the yahoos who complain about it and say that they are fondling people and touching them inappropriately.

The big deal, is what they are doing, is illegal in all 50 states. Try touching a women's breast in public in front of a cop with or without her permission and see if you aren't charged with sex crime, and after spending time in jail/prison, have to register as a sexual predator for the rest of your life. No one is suppose to be above the law, not even the President, so what gives them the right to violate what is normally considered a serious violent crime. They don't even do it in private, I saw a 25 year old woman go through this the last time I flew and she was terrified!! I felt so bad for her.