/snip

Fair to say optimism isn't one of your strong points.

What if he is more right than wrong? Then what??

Based on all the information I have, public and otherwise... I think you're all in for a very, very rude awakening regarding Flight. Based on what I know and have heard... it's first and foremost goal is to integrate with GamesForWindows which has now merged with the XBox Live! system.

Don't see any negatives for me here.

I do not believe Flight will be released with global scenery (hence one reason you're only seeing Hawaii in the images/videos). I do not believe Flight will be released with multiple aircraft. To get more scenery will require a subscription and/or a download of a purchased product via the GFW/XBox Live! 'store'. To get additional aircraft will require the same.

So? I've never simmed with FSX aircraft or scenery, so no negatives here either.

Flight is being converted over as a game primarily. As in, you have an avatar and the avatar is the 'repository' of everything Flight-related for you.

Avatar, shmavatar, it's just a user account. And if that repository means I can installl, reinstall, automatically update, validate, backup, whatever my scenery and aircraft add-ons, so much the better. God Bless Microsoft!

You will have a 'career' or some other similar concept and it will lock you in based on your current 'level'. Thus you can't just hop into Flight, grab a 787 Dreamliner and go for a flight... unless your 'career' has a high enough 'level' to 'qualify'. Of course, that's also assuming you've purchased the aircraft as well.

I seriously doubt Microsoft would force-feed Career Mode on all of us. Many simmers already are airline career pilots in the RW, so now they (again) have to take lessons in a Cessna 150? Not!

Multiplayer will be only via subscription, no other method will be possible as Microsoft will lock that down completely.

I wouldn't mind paying a $30/year flat fee for Multiplayer if it works the way it should. Heck, I've spent more than that on shoddy aircraft add-ons with flimsy air files that I never fly, so let's maintain perspective.

All addons will have to be approved by Microsoft. All. No exceptions. All addons will have to be purchased from Microsoft who will get a substantial cut. You think $50 is too much for an aircraft addon today... don't worry. The prices will go down with Flight...

Excellent! I really want this feature!

but then, about all you'll see are products from companies that just don't really care about complexity and detail.

You really think PMDG won't participate in the Marketplace? Why on Earth not? On the contrary, all developpers will be glad they won't have to deal with their own web sites (or a multitude of flimsy on-line stores) to sell their wares and deal with credit card approvals and downloads and technical support for when the downloads don't download, when for a few bucks they will be able to outsource these tasks to the Marketplace? And don't flight sim stores already take a cut from add-on sales? Of course they do, and I don't hear anyone complaining. What if the Marketplace cut is actually less than the current flightsim store cut due to economies of scale? Why do you think the Apple App store (today with 425,000 apps on sale!) is such a raging success?

So... good luck with Flight... I think you're going to need it.One more item... 'approved developers' is an absurdity. Microsoft would fail their own standards requirements, thus any attempts on their part to enforce such a concept would fall flat. It's never worked well in the past... and it's probably not going to work well this time either.

Again, standards would be great for all developpers to meet (Microsoft included). Finally, recall the December 8, 2010 press release: "In addition to the FAQ on this topic, we want to directly address the concern that by dropping the “Simulator” from the name, we’re dumbing down the experience. Quite the contrary! We’ve developed on the “simulation” aspect for many years and have no intention of losing that legacy. What we’re doing now is improving the total experience while building on this legacy, enhancing the enjoyment for all who share a passion for flight. The more people who join us in the Flight experience, the greater the opportunity we’ll have to do even more". Cheers, - jahman.

"Dumbing down" generally means removing or simplifying features. If Flight were to be no more the FSX plus gaming features, it wouldn't have been dumbed down. In the FAQs Microsoft also said "..new game play elements and enhanced scenery and terrain to new aircraft." Well, we've seen enhanced scenery and terrain haven't we?

Based on all the information I have, public and otherwise... I think you're all in for a very, very rude awakening regarding Flight. Based on what I know and have heard... it's first and foremost goal is to integrate with GamesForWindows which has now merged with the XBox Live! system. I do not believe Flight will be released with global scenery (hence one reason you're only seeing Hawaii in the images/videos). I do not believe Flight will be released with multiple aircraft. To get more scenery will require a subscription and/or a download of a purchased product via the GFW/XBox Live! 'store'. To get additional aircraft will require the same. Flight is being converted over as a game primarily. As in, you have an avatar and the avatar is the 'repository' of everything Flight-related for you. You will have a 'career' or some other similar concept and it will lock you in based on your current 'level'. Thus you can't just hop into Flight, grab a 787 Dreamliner and go for a flight... unless your 'career' has a high enough 'level' to 'qualify'. Of course, that's also assuming you've purchased the aircraft as well. Multiplayer will be only via subscription, no other method will be possible as Microsoft will lock that down completely. All addons will have to be approved by Microsoft. All. No exceptions. All addons will have to be purchased from Microsoft who will get a substantial cut. You think $50 is too much for an aircraft addon today... don't worry. The prices will go down with Flight... but then, about all you'll see are products from companies that just don't really care about complexity and detail. So... good luck with Flight... I think you're going to need it. One more item... 'approved developers' is an absurdity. Microsoft would fail their own standards requirements, thus any attempts on their part to enforce such a concept would fall flat. It's never worked well in the past... and it's probably not going to work well this time either.

Dam....I could have write this post myself....wait I did write something like that have I not, starting from let say one year ago ....online play, pay as you go, business as usual is over... blah blah blah. he IS more right than wrong. Good post,

Of course it will all depend on how it looks, but I expect (based on my speculation) that the marketplace will not be something I like for the following reasons: 1) I expect that if Flight is successfull, the central addon distribution will lead to a decrease in the diversity of the community. The way I first got interested in sites like Avsim, Simviation or SOH was because I was looking for some addons for my sim. I only got to looking into the forums some time later. With freeware addons no longer published via these web pages, I expect that the interest in these community forums will also hugely decrease. 2) Even if the marketplace will publish freeware, I don't expect that MS will be able to host the vast variety and number of freeware addons we currently find on pages like Avsim without charging the users or developers for downloads. 3) The windows live portal is suggesting that addons need to meet a certain quality to be published. Most freeware developers don't start publishing high quality addons right away, but need to learn and develop their skills. If they cannot publish their initial develpments any longer and get feedback from users, many may get discouraged stop creating further addons right away. 4) While the market place may be interesting to smaller payware developers, it will not be interesting for larger companies that make part of their profit from retailing other addons. I would expect that many of these companies will switch to X-Plane 10 (e.g. Aerosoft is already doing so). 5) Finally I personally don't like centralized app stores in general because they can be used to collect huge amounts of customer information that can then be used and sold for other marketing purposes - especially if this is combined with some kind of online registration every time you start the sim. I just don't want MS to have a central data base capturing when and how often I play the sim, how much money I spend and which addons I am interested in.

4) While the market place may be interesting to smaller payware developers, it will not be interesting for larger companies that make part of their profit from retailing other addons. I would expect that many of these companies will switch to X-Plane 10 (e.g. Aerosoft is already doing so).

This point is very interesting. Wouldn't it be ironic for Microsoft that in their haste to grab more money they lost a large part of their user base (and developers) to X-Plane! Regards, Mike Mann

This point is very interesting. Wouldn't it be ironic for Microsoft that in their haste to grab more money they lost a large part of their user base (and developers) to X-Plane! Regards, Mike Mann

If Microsoft make mores from its traget market I don't think it will care.

he IS more right than wrong.

So you're on the Flight team and know this for a fact, or you are making another pointless guess based off of no info?

@ HughesMDflyer4 What!!! you want me to reply to your post when you can't reply to a simple question I asked about Hawaii been enhanced or default. Guess what I'll answer your question since I don't mind, no I'm not on the Flight team, now about me guessing.... one right guess is OK, two right guesses is "kinda" lucky but what after three or four + right guesses....what does that mean...... you will have to wait until Flight is released to see if I was full of it or if I knew something you did not. Back to Hawaii, in your honest opinion do you think Hawaii as we see it from the Flight screen shots and video is default or an enhenced Flight version, easy enough to answer is in it, so which one do you think it is.....

Back to Hawaii, in your honest opinion do you think Hawaii as we see it from the Flight screen shots and video is default or an enhenced Flight version, easy enough to answer is in it, so which one do you think it is.....

OK, I'll play along. Yes, I think it is default. Flight Simulator has always had its high detail areas. Hawaii is possibly one of those locations. It's an example of what add-ons for the rest of the world would be like. (the whole world is included along with detailed Hawaii, but to match the detail in Hawaii worldwide, you can get add-ons either from Microsoft, or whatever company(s) are doing the scenery.) You need an example of what you are getting to make you want more. That would mean more money for Microsoft and developers. That's just my 2 1/2 cents.

OK, I'll play along. Yes, I think it is default. Flight Simulator has always had its high detail areas. Hawaii is possibly one of those locations. It's an example of what add-ons for the rest of the world would be like. (the whole world is included along with detailed Hawaii, but to match the detail in Hawaii worldwide, you can get add-ons either from Microsoft, or whatever company(s) are doing the scenery.) You need an example of what you are getting to make you want more. That would mean more money for Microsoft and developers. That's just my 2 1/2 cents.

Good post, Hawaii with high detail areas can be one of those location, granted, but now because of this another good question can be asked, if the rest of the world can be match in details to look like Hawaii by adding add-ons to Flight one should expect to have add-ons in the store at the release date of Flight and not one or two years after (cause some peoples here think that it will take that long for the dev. to come up with add-ons for Flight). So if Flight is released without add-ons to make where ever you would like to fly look like Hawaii ....what a deception it will be for us serious simmers... now if Flight is released with add-ons in the store from the get go to make where ever you want to fly look like Hawaii one can assume that the dev. were in bed with MS from the beginning and one can also assume that Hawaii was enhanced with the help of the same dev.

Oh man..we need new material from MS. The reruns are becoming unbearable.

You can always change the channel!

So if Flight is released without add-ons to make where ever you would like to fly look like Hawaii ....what a deception it will be for us serious simmers...

Really? MSFS has never been able to cover the entire world with scenery at the level of say what you see in St. Maartin in FSX, Seattle or New York in FS2004, or Chicago in Sublogic Flight Siimulator for the C=64. It would be impossible to do, and it has never been done in the past, that was why the add-on market was and still is such an intergral part of the franchise; it is impossible for Microsoft to provide that level of detail in our lifetime. (Not to mention the fact that the world is changing even as it is being modeled.) For years Europe, Africa and the Far East was poorly covered, and is still not covered to the level detail of North America in the default sim. When you pick up a brochure for a new car, do they picture the baseline model with no frills, or one with all the extra options piled on? The world is full of similiar marketing examples; it is natural to present your best. I am ready for a new press release too.... -James