Full marks for effort, Stan :)Mike

If you follow the instructions they give you and do what they say and you have a force feed back joystick, it works really well, not sure if it's worth 45CAD, maybe if it was 15 or so.

Now I know why some of you are not enjoying this software. YOU NEED TO HAVE A FORCE FEEDBACK JOYSTICK!LMAO!!!First rule of trouble-shooting - look for the obvious.Mikehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/madamo/boeingsig.jpg

I am currently a student pilot working on my PPL. I use FS9 and the Flight1 Cessna 152 a LOT to practice procedures and to help maintain profeciency. I have been using FS for a long time for fun with the jets. I was very interested in this product to add some more realism to the experience. I downloaded it last night and spent a few hours messing with it.I followed the readme instructions to a T, and fired up FS9. I have a Microsoft FF2 and CH Pro USB pedals. I launched a saved flight of my 152 where it is cold and dark. I cranked her up and took off. No forces what so ever. I rechecked all my settings (forces unchecked in options, deleted joystick trim, etc...), reintialized forces, reloaded profile (Light GA). Still got nada.I decided to reboot everything and try it again. This time I created a flight with the default 737. The forces showed up! I taxied out at KPNS and took off. All the forces were there as advertised. Not sure why it didn't work on my 152 before. It certainly took a lot of getting used to. The hardest thing was getting the trim right for final approach coming back in. The nose was pitched way up, and I couldn't seem to adjust the MSFS trim right to get the right attitude. FsForce did as advertised as I could trim out the force to hold that attitude. The attitude was just wrong however. Next, I tried out the POSKY 757-200. All the forces were there again. I think I started to get the hang of the trim and pitch attitude, because my approaches looked a little more normal. Finally, I hopped in my 152 (all of these flights were done in the same session). The forces (although they were very very light) were there for the 152 now. I spent some time simply doing touch and go's and pattern work. Even though I felt the forces weren't as strong as they should be for a 152 (it is a small plane, but you still get strong forces in real life), I must say that FsForce greatly stablized the joystick and made a HUGE improvement on my approaches and landings. My flares were incredibly smoother and I was able to hold the nose wheel off the ground easier and longer than before. My next trial flight will be with turbulence and crosswind. Landing in those conditions were MUCH harder in FS9 with the FF2 than in real life.Overall this product is very interesting and helpful in certain conditions at the very least. Some of the forces I consider a gimmick, such as the cornering forces and braking. You wouldn't get those in real life. You would feel it in your seat, but not in the yoke. A lot of the forces are cool, but for me personally didn't really add a lot of value to the sim experience.The trimming effect is neat and a little more like real life in that it holds the stick in the proper position. However, the default MS trim system is still very realistic in how the airplane actually behaves. In real life, when I trim out the airplane I simply let go of the yoke to see what the nose is going to do. In a climb, if the nose drops then I obvsiouly need to trim up. It isn't so much trimming to cancel the weight on the yoke, as it is trimming to hold the attitude you want without having to even touch the yoke. MS simulates this just fine.As far as value, as many have said, the $35 is simply too expensive. For that kind of money you can go out and buy some of the most entertaining and value packed PC games on the market today. If I am going to spend that much money on a FS add-on, then I just assume spend a little more on a CH Yoke. I would rather use the same control device that the real life aircraft uses if I want more realism. I am an electrical engineer and programmer so I fully understand the effort that went into this product, and appreciate it greatly. $35 is simply asking too much though for a lot of "cool" effects. FsForce certainly does make certain things a lot more like real life, but not $35 worth. For me I do see some value in this product at around the $15 level, but not much more.

>the trim makes the planes>wonderful to fly, i really dont know how i lived without it. >Darren Hi Darren. As a beta tester my first reaction was I didn't like the new trim but that lasted about 1 day. :-) Now I can't imagine going back to the stock trim.FaxCap

>5: You have a Saitek stick and haven't read the instructions>specific for that stick (requires an amendment to profiles)I had forgotten about that, Allcott. It did come up while we were beta testing!>The best bit is that FSF finally gets rid of that `sloppy`>feeling in the MSFF2 stick either side of centre which makesAnother poster mentioned he put his FF stick away after 2 or 3 days.I almost did the same thing until Russ asked if I would like to beta test.>I do agree the cost is too high. But then one could always try>sending the bill to Bill. After all, if Russ Dirks can make>the MS Force Feedback stick work with the MS Flight Simulator>package, why couldn't MS? >>>AllcottFunny you should mention that, Allcott. I told Russ in an e:mailI thought there would be a chance Microsoft would come knocking on his door to buy FS Force. :-) Maybe the company who make the FF2 for MS will start the FF2 production line again.FaxCap

Very informative review. Thanks.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

>Now I know why some of you are not enjoying this software.>YOU NEED TO HAVE A FORCE FEEDBACK JOYSTICK! > Stan:-boom :-boom ...... "Why won't my CH Flightstick shake?!?!" :-boom :-boom :-lol

Stan,I've downloaded the trial version of FS Force and I'm loving it! It is FAR better than the default force feedback for these reasons:1. There is no lag on the control forces while in flight. With the default force feedback provided in FS2004 there was lag in the sense that when you rolled quickly to one side and then back the other, the force feedback effect in the opposite direction would need to catch up. With this, it is instantaneous.2. Bumps during landing feel much more convincing, and increase in intensity the harder you land, which is fantastic!3. The cornering and braking forces are wonderful, and truly add another level of immersion to the sim.4. I can feel the bumps on the taxiways and runways, and the intensity lightens up when you speed up, which feels great.5. When the landing gear is down, you can actually feel some buffeting, like in real life. This is similar to what you get in IL2 Sturmovik.All in all, one of the best things for me to come out for FS.I'm planning to purchase it today!James

Hi all,I've downloaded the trial version of FS Force and I'm loving it! It is FAR better than the default force feedback for these reasons:1. There is no lag on the control forces while in flight. With the default force feedback provided in FS2004 there was lag in the sense that when you rolled quickly to one side and then back the other, the force feedback effect in the opposite direction would need to catch up. With this, it is instantaneous.2. Bumps during landing feel much more convincing, and increase in intensity the harder you land, which is fantastic!3. The cornering and braking forces are wonderful, and truly add another level of immersion to the sim.4. I can feel the bumps on the taxiways and runways, and the intensity lightens up when you speed up, which feels great.5. When the landing gear is down, you can actually feel some buffeting, like in real life. This is similar to what you get in IL2 Sturmovik.6. The trim feature is truly something else, and it is infinitely more realistic than the default trim feature in MS, which is designed for non-FF joysticks.All in all, one of the best things for me to come out for FS.I'm planning to purchase it today!James

I hear all kinds of good things about the trim feature- I'd like to know if anyone is using FSForce with a GoFlight trim / landing gear console? I'd like to know if this new trim function works well with GoFlight's trim wheel.Best,Joel

Well I downloaded the trial version and decided to give it a go. How would it compare to the (what I considered) excellent effects from my Cyborg 3d Rumble Stick. Take off went well. Hmmm, I thought this is nice. Then I lifted off and.....nothing! Oh, am I doing something wrong? Where's the effects I get when banking? Where's the effects I get when descending? I decided to re-check the FS Force website. I didn't see any particular reference to the Rumble Stick. I then checked the forum and saw a message that the Rumble Stick wasn't compatible as it wasn't a true FF stick. Well they could have made that point in the main site! I understand that things aren't always compatible but it's nice to be told these things. Oh well, back to the MS forces. That's ok though because I think the Rumble Stick does them very well.

after trying two different FF sticks [logitech/msFF2] and fs force[with the ms] i've given up with the FF sticks. back to the trusty old wignman extreme digita. tt