I don't have FS Force yet, but do intend to try it as soon as I get my new FF stick (bought an MS FF2 off eBay, figure even if I don't like the program I can sell it for what I paid as it seems to be becoming a bit of a collector's item).But reading all the posts I have to agree that some people seem oddly negative, as if they don't want the program to work- and are happy to find out that it doesn't! Very strange.As to why some people are reporting very good results and others not, it has to come down to one or more of the following- - the software has issues with different systems and doesn't work as well on all;- poor quality stick, or stick without proper drivers- failure to properly follow the instructions- and this may partly lie with the intructions themselves, maybe they're not clear enough?- not necessarily a case of the person having an 8th grade education.In any case I do want to hear more about how people are experiencing the software, but would prefer that it doesn't get personal and unecessarily negative.Best and Happy New Year,Joel

>I have a Saitek Cyborg 3D Force, and I use FS Force and it>works well, you just have to edit each profile in FS Force, to>tell it that you have a Saitek Joystick, you also have to have>Saitek Drivers installed, not just the generic XP ones.I've got a Cyborg 3d Rumble Stick and I find the default force feed back fine. Is FS Force that much better?

Paul,My comment was not meant to be "abusive and contemptuous". Your word, "contumelious" is way too strong. My comment was meant to simply "jar" some of the simmers who are making what I feel are unfair and "rush to judgement" type comments about an excellent program. I'm sure that instructions are not being followed or the hardware/software is conflicting for some reason. As is being said in this thread...it almost seems as though there are those who wish for this wonderful addon to fail. Why? I'm just not sure. I have my ideas, but since so many of the readers here are indeed "sensitive" to this issue, we'll just let the next few weeks play out. I'm sure that Russell's program is being received well. The future of the program will be evident soon. Stan

>Yeah I don't think I will buy it, 45 CAD for a utility? I>payed 50 CAD for FS :-lol, so it would be dumb to spend the>same amount on just a utility.I tend to agree that price is important part of the equation. Lets take such ground braking products like Flight1's Meridian or PMDG's 737NG or ActiveSky 2004. I can bet they took infinitely more man-hours to develop. Yet their prices are either significantly less or no more than this utility. It leaves strangely sour aftertaste in my mouth when some developer considers he/she should be compensated so much more over the 'nominal' going rate. Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

Ya know, I am getting a little peeved with the advocates of this program. I WANT it to work and love FF in my flying. I posted on Russells forum when he announced it, now after reading the manual, installing, turning off FF in the sim and selecting and tweaking the profiles, I did NOT get the results as advertised and enjoyed by the ones that think it is the best thing for FS, yet I came out with an open mind and posted my findings in another post and tried it several more times,......... with the same results. Yet now, I am branded as a naysayer and being negative because it didn't work, some just can't seem to fathom that it didn't work, plain and simple, doesn't mean I am down on the program, just not going to purchase because it didn't work for me and the price is a bit steep, BUT I applaud Russells efforts and I am happy for those that it works for.I think Active Camera is the best thing for FS, yet realise that there are those that can't get it to work or think it costs to much, yet I don't condemn them!Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VACougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviation[link:www.cgrmthelos.com]Cougar Mountain Helicopters

Stan,I doubt there are many who wish the product a failure. On the contrary - I am very impressed that someone finally decided to tackle the FF - a long neglected area of the sim. Truely a pioneering work. On the other hand for those that are so enthusiastic to advertise the virtues of this utility it would help if they came across as experienced flyers qualified to judge realism of this utility - on the contrary they come across as kids raving about "braking" or "cornering" forces. Hardly a good sign. Also the controversial price is another aspect - please read my comments above about the price.I am open minded and reserve my final comments when I have a FF stick to test with. Also I wait for some real-life flyers to post reviews (so far I have seen one).Michael J.

MichaelI replied to your post in the the other thread Did you get the effects I described for the 737 as far as engine vibration , bumps, and stick resistance growing with speed?.Just curious if any of these effects worked as I described in my replyAll the bestJohn

>I'm sure that instructions are not being followedWell Stan, thanks for you thoughts but it seems you've just managed to insult me yet again. I do not care if FSF works for me or does not - in fact I'm quite happy it didn't. I will not purchase this product however "entrepreneurial" you may view it (which is debatable. I shall use probably the more relevant word: "innovative"). It is simply far far far too expensive for what it is.Just my opinion - you will not change it.>The future of the program will be evident soonI should think for this price, the future of the program should be evident NOW!Cheers,Paulhttp://www.strontiumdog.plus.com/cin.gifwww.bavirtual.co.uk/cin.htm - please give generously!!Officially licenced by British Airways plc for use of name and logo[p]AMD XP2800+ Barton, Gigabyte GA-7NNXP nForce2, 1Gig Crucial PC3200 DDR 400MHz, Gainward 128 MB GF4-4200, SB Audigy, 3 x WD Caviar SE[/p]

Hi All,I've got the stick for the next person who wants to beat the dead horse.... I have no idea why this utility is causing such a stir??!! All it does is provide "more" movement/feel to your FFB stick!?Can we just ALL agree to disagree??? Those that love the program you'll NEVER change the minds of those that don't so, stop trying :-)Mikehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/madamo/boeingsig.jpg

I'm one of the lucky ones, FS Force works for me.How does it compare with the real thing? It's been quite a whilesince my teens and early 20's but I spent those years flying everywaking moment I could. All the small stuff of the day. I havealso quite recently spent 3 hours flying a multi million dollarflight simulator (767). How do I compare it....I found the stockMS FF weak to say the least. Do you feel the pavement grooves taxing a 777 in real life....nobut FS Force gives me the option to turn it off if I don't want it.For me the 4 features of FS Force that sold me are 1-Stronger feedback2- Completely adjustable settings 3- Individual aircraft profilesand 4- Even though I didn't like the new Trim system for the 1stfew hours it is now one of my favorite features.FaxCap

I think it's causing a stir primarilly because it's expensive in a RELATIVE sense and even though it works it doesn't in the perception of several who have tried it 'deliver' value...at least not to the tune of $35. This statement is not intended to be a value judgment but an opinion based on my own and orthers' reported experiences. As I said in my previuos post, I appreciate very much that someone is tackling this area of flight sim and hope it goes on to be a very good and successful product but if the author wants to sell it he needs to take note of the comments made. I wish him luck.

John, yes, thanks for the reply and the suggestions. I did get a few bumps and some resistance, but couldn't tell on the growing speed feeling. I went into the profile and tried a few more settings and sometimes I got FF and sometimes not. I got the best results from the 172, good feeling while I taxied, but inconsistant, and after adjusting the trim, felt ok in flight, but I did some touch and go's and nothing upon touchdown or banking.I still get the auto center needs to be off warning, but no idea on that one. Thanks though!Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VACougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviation[link:www.cgrmthelos.com]Cougar Mountain Helicopters

AAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH.....OK....as far as I'm concerned, I'm moving on to other topics. I'm just going to fade out on this topic because it's going nowhere. I hope you all get the most satisfaction out of whatever configuration of programs, hardware, addons, and periphery you're able to assemble and make work successfully on your individual systems.Now, what else shall we talk about? Stan

Perhaps we should talk about your rather tempting statement about the future of this product? Are you suggesting a potential price reduction, or something less useful, LOL?I have to wonder why beta-testers (of any product) tend to be the most vociferous advocates...Cheers,Paulhttp://www.strontiumdog.plus.com/cin.gifwww.bavirtual.co.uk/cin.htm - please give generously!!Officially licenced by British Airways plc for use of name and logo[p]AMD XP2800+ Barton, Gigabyte GA-7NNXP nForce2, 1Gig Crucial PC3200 DDR 400MHz, Gainward 128 MB GF4-4200, SB Audigy, 3 x WD Caviar SE[/p]

You really should give the trial a try, it really is that much better.