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Guest tonyf38

Pitch attitude on approach and touchdown.

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All I'm going to say is that PMDG got it exactly right in the 800/900.. This is not a 100/200, classic or even a 600/700 which has a different flare and touchdown technique than the 800/900.. Don't try to bring up the pitch attitude to 5 degrees while in the flare or it's going to get messy.. If you're getting a Vref that seems too high which requires a level pitch attitude or lower, which I haven't had a problem with, something is being programmed incorrectly in the CDU or there might be a glitch with a hotfix, that I don't know.. I'm wondering if the latest hotfix has anything to do with it.. I haven't installed it.. BTW. the takeoff technique is different also...

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What is your attitude in Vref30+5 configuration on a 3 degrees glidepad?

Don't try to bring up the pitch attitude to 5 degrees while in the flare or it's going to get messy..
Please have a look at the FCTM 6.12 ;-)It says that the attitude should be just below 5 degrees on touch down with flaps30.

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What is your attitude in Vref30+5 configuration on a 3 degrees glidepad? Please have a look at the FCTM 6.12 ;-)It says that the attitude should be just below 5 degrees on touch down with flaps30.
The FCTM was written for the 600/700 also.. Just trust me, the 800/900 requires a lower pitch attitude on touchdown... My Vref+5 is around 2 degress nose up, then touchdown is about 3 to 3.5 degrees.. Just look the different lengths of the different models, quite a difference and that's why the landing procedure is different...

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My Vref+5 is around 2 degrees nose up
Mines not, it's zero degrees every time. And no hot fixes installed. Martin Wilby

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The FCTM was written for the 600/700 also.. Just trust me, the 800/900 requires a lower pitch attitude on touchdown... My Vref+5 is around 2 degress nose up, then touchdown is about 3 to 3.5 degrees.. Just look the different lengths of the different models, quite a difference and that's why the landing procedure is different...
No offence, but I trust the Boeing manual! :-) And it says that the attitude on final approach with Vref30+5 should be 2.4-3.6 where I and a lot of other people get 0 everytime.It also says that the touchdown attitude should be just below the 5 degrees whereas i get no more then 2 or I will float the whole runway. And yes, I'm looking at the -800 model, trust me! ;-) Kind regards, Daniel

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...No offence, but I trust the Boeing manual! :-) And it says that the attitude on final approach with Vref30+5 should be 2.4-3.6 where I and a lot of other people get 0 everytime...
I confirm. Zero degree on final approach with Vref+5. There is a problem. But the developer does not want to admit it.

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Hey man , what's the problem??? This is taken from SpiceJet 737-800 Video during approaching just before landing.Maybe this one is clearer.

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All I'm going to say is that PMDG got it exactly right in the 800/900.. This is not a 100/200, classic or even a 600/700 which has a different flare and touchdown technique than the 800/900.. Don't try to bring up the pitch attitude to 5 degrees while in the flare or it's going to get messy.. If you're getting a Vref that seems too high which requires a level pitch attitude or lower, which I haven't had a problem with, something is being programmed incorrectly in the CDU or there might be a glitch with a hotfix, that I don't know.. I'm wondering if the latest hotfix has anything to do with it.. I haven't installed it.. BTW. the takeoff technique is different also...
mmm...kind of misleading people here. I fly the -700/-800 and the touchdown techniques are the same - flare (increasing pitch by 2-3 degrees) and touchdown! Tony, since you are flying the real thing as well, refer to section 6 of your FCTM v 10, July 2011, pages 6.17 to 6.19 and tell us what Boeing says about the Pitch attitude on touchdown that is at Vref. If yours says anything other than aprox. 5, i think we are flying totally different NGs! Frank, have a good look at the pic. We are not talking about approach attitudes (well, not just yet!). Talking about attitude on touchdown. That is 20ft, thrust levers back to idle and waiting for the main gear to touch the runway. That aircraft is on final approach with the threshold some distance away. We debating over whether it should be 2.5 degrees as PMDG as set it or what boeing and most real pilots do which is approx 5 degrees (just below the 5 degree line). Hoping PMDG will check out the proper boeing manuals and come out with a fix. Thats why i am fussing about it.

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For all those who say it should be 2-2.5 degrees for the flare, go to 8:48 in this video and watch until touch down.

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Just below the 5 degree line and notice the time between flare and touch down. I've seen an average of three seconds.

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No need to fart jizz bubbles.. hahaha.. Here's a vid I made a few days ago... Vref134 , wind down the runway at about 5 kts, flaps40, weights, can't remember off the top of my head but 140 passengers and about 3000lbs in each tank.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLCf0kNNqNE

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No need to fart jizz bubbles.. hahaha.. Here's a vid I made a few days ago... Vref134 , wind down the runway at about 5 kts, flaps40, weights, can't remember off the top of my head but 140 passengers and about 3000lbs in each tank.. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=iLCf0kNNqNE
Wow your frames are so smooth even with ai car traffic.What kind of system is FSX running on?

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Thanx AJ... My rig's a dinosaur compared to most, but it works well and I built it myself and ran a lot of stability tests on it.. Asus rampage extreme, q9650 @4.0 .. 4gb ddr3 mushkin ram, gtx 285 OCFU, and a 300 gb vrap for fsx.. I sometimes have to turn off Ultimate traffic 2 in dense areas though or it impacts performance.. The q9650 is one helluva processor..

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Ok guys, I'm done here, no sense arguing.. Enjoy the accurate -800/900

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No need to fart jizz bubbles.. hahaha.. Here's a vid I made a few days ago... Vref134 , wind down the runway at about 5 kts, flaps40, weights, can't remember off the top of my head but 140 passengers and about 3000lbs in each tank.. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=iLCf0kNNqNE
Sorry Tony, But this video doesn't say anything except for the incredible smooth fps!! Praying.gif . You are flying a visual approach without even set up the MCP (speed???) correctly. Please do it again, but this time with an ILS, show us your approach page with the speeds and fly it with Vref30+5. You can say that there is no sense arguing about this but why do you ignore the comments of real world pilots who fly the 737NG everyday? I know you want to think that the NGX is dead accurate on this moment but it is not. It is an amazing peace of a product but it is not hard to tell that the flightmodel is not correct on the approach.

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This is easy! Pitch on approach on a 3 degree glideslope should be 2 degrees up at flap 30, at VREF +5. [The manual says so, apologies if I'm wrong] The PMDG NGX in the same scenario is zero degrees. A slight adjustment and it's there in my opinion. Something I can do in the aircraft cfg in minutes. Something tells me your issues will be gone with a minor tweak. Hopefully PMDG will correct this minor issue, unless they believe we are in error. Martin Wilby

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Sorry Tony, But this video doesn't say anything except for the incredible smooth fps!! Praying.gif . You are flying a visual approach without even set up the MCP (speed???) correctly. Please do it again, but this time with an ILS, show us your approach page with the speeds and fly it with Vref30+5. You can say that there is no sense arguing about this but why do you ignore the comments of real world pilots who fly the 737NG everyday? I know you want to think that the NGX is dead accurate on this moment but it is not. It is an amazing peace of a product but it is not hard to tell that the flightmodel is not correct on the approach.
Now that's funny.. BTW, The speed was set up correctly during the actual approach, I just didn't reset the MCP settings after the recording.. I ignore those who say they're real world pilots and are not..

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And what was his pitch throughout the approach. About three degrees or so. In the PMDG bird we see ZERO degrees. Martin Wilby

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About 3,5 degrees? What's your point? Fact is the NGX has a attitude of 0 degrees at Vref30+5 which should be higher and has a excessive float tendency when flaring. What is so difficult about that?

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I don't know what to believ anymore regarding this. If it I'd a bug, I'm sure it will be fixed, but that video did look like 3 degrees on flare like the Ngx does.I wish we could get input from real ng pilots.

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I was quoting Brayton who said I was misleading people about the 4-7 degree pitch up attitude at touchdown that the FTCM states..

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About 3,5 degrees? What's your point? Fact is the NGX has a attitude of 0 degrees at Vref30+5 which should be higher and has a excessive float tendency when flaring. What is so difficult about that?
That was my point.

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