i ve dig into a FCTM too ... and i found something that may help too .... on the page 6.3 there is a statement about : ..."... aircraft body attitudes are based on VREF 30 and / or 40 VREF +5 and should be reduced by 1° for each 5 knots above this VREF+5 ..."... the body attitude for the -800 with 1 skid position should be 2.4° flaps 30 and 1.4° flaps 40the body attitude for the -800 with 2 skid positions should be 3.6° flaps 30 and 2.7° flaps 40 the -900 is in the same config is 1.6° and 0.9° any fctm can be different depending on the company but seems maybe the flight model of the -800 is taken from the -900 at least for the approach mode. cant test i dont have FSX nor PMDG NGX just trying to help. all the best. Phil

Guys, What I see from the real data(QAR) is that the 737-800 actually approach with 0~+1.5 degrees attitude with Flaps 30. In this case , the NGX is very accurate.The problem we are concerning is the touchdown attitude. The real 738 has an average of +5.2 Degrees at touchdown in our data.Also, thanks Ryan for the reply.

Guys, What I see from the real data is that the 737-800 actually approach with 0~+1.5 degrees attitude with Flaps 30. In this case , the NGX is very accurate.The problem we are concerning is the touchdown attitude. The real 738 has an average of +5.2 Degrees at touchdown in our data.Also, thanks Ryan for the reply.

but I think people are confusing what they see of the PFD horizon with AOA.. I may be wrong on this but I think the NGX is accurate on approach and landing. Plus I find it really hard to believe that would get past a handful of type rated pilots that fly these planes daily

Here is more info,

but I think people are confusing what they see of the PFD horizon with AOA.. I may be wrong on this but I think the NGX is accurate on approach and landing. Plus I find it really hard to believe that would get past a handful of type rated pilots that fly these planes daily

That's exactly what I am thinking as well. Those guys know much*π better than us. Maybe they just didn't notice. This 'issue' is actually so minor considering the amount of details in the NGX. But I do find the NGX float quite easily even if you just pitch up a little and touchdown attitude are all about 2~2.5 degrees with all my flights with the NGX. Not a big issue, but still worth considering.

Yes, we're referring to the unreliable airspeed charts as the other document (and I'm aware it's +10 there). As I said, we'll look into it - one of our pilots who we do trust completely is going to look at this on the real airplane and report back on any differences he sees vs. the NGX.

That's exactly what I am thinking as well. Those guys know much*π better than us. Maybe they just didn't notice. This 'issue' is actually so minor considering the amount of details in the NGX. But I do find the NGX float quite easily even if you just pitch up a little and touchdown attitude are all about 2~2.5 degrees with all my flights with the NGX. Not a big issue, but still worth considering.

Maybe it is something we are doing wrong? Maybe we are used to FS planes that are not as realistic as this one? or maybe it is off? I guess we will have to wait until the pro's sort this out. I was practicing my landings tonight and I got it to touchdown nice with no floating, the flare is slight and very gentle I touched down at vref or 1 or two below.. One thing I was wondering, if your 3 degrees nose up and your descending at 3 degrees wouldn't that show as zero degrees on the PFD horizon. your AOA would read 3.0 or so but your horizon would be near zero.

Yes, we're referring to the unreliable airspeed charts as the other document (and I'm aware it's +10 there). As I said, we'll look into it - one of our pilots who we do trust completely is going to look at this on the real airplane and report back on any differences he sees vs. the NGX.

Good to know that if it is off it will be corrected.

Guys, What I see from the real data(QAR) is that the 737-800 actually approach with 0~+1.5 degrees attitude with Flaps 30. In this case , the NGX is very accurate.The problem we are concerning is the touchdown attitude. The real 738 has an average of +5.2 Degrees at touchdown in our data.Also, thanks Ryan for the reply.

depending on the configurations and options .... for VREF, and for a -800let s say with :- SFP and 2 position for tail skid with flaps 40 it s just below 4° and with flaps 30 a little below 6° in most of the landing weight.- SFP and 1 position for tail skid with flaps 40 it s just above 4° and with flaps 30 a little below 4.5° in most of the landing weight. for a -800 without options with flaps 40 it s just above 4° and with flaps 30 a little below 5° in most of the landing weight. but im not taking the unreliable speed charts but the ones provided in the FCTM ...

Nah, don't trust me... I don't know anything about aviation or the 737, or the MU-2, or the King Air, or the Citation II ... Going to mail in my certificate and medical I'm so ashamed I post such nonsense.. How bout a big group hug??

Don't take everything so seriously. I just find it a bit funny how you went from "they've got the flightmodel spot on!" to "here are my settings to correct the attitude problem".:-D"just trust me" is a very bad mindset in the cockpit. You should know that, I suppose you followed a MCC course too?No hard feelings ;-)Kind regards,Daniel Verhaal

I was practicing my landings tonight and I got it to touchdown nice with no floating, the flare is slight and very gentle I touched down at vref or 1 or two below.. One thing I was wondering, if your 3 degrees nose up and your descending at 3 degrees wouldn't that show as zero degrees on the PFD horizon. your AOA would read 3.0 or so but your horizon would be near zero.

No, the FCOM refers to the aircraft on a 3 degree glideslope, and the pitch of the aircraft being 2 degrees up, [angle of attack is therefore 5 degrees] Flare equates to about 4-degrees pitch. Nobody is confusing angle of attack with pitch as others have suggested, or forgetting the 3 degree gliedesope. Personally, I have no issue with the flare in regard to floating, if you go by the book, and reduce thrust at 20 feet, while simultaneously lifting the nose by a couple of degrees, the landing is great. I would expect an aircraft with an efficient wing, in ground effect, and so much inertia to have a tendency to float if you got it wrong. Use the HUD, plant the velocity vector just below the horizon and you won't float. The only issue is the zero degree pitch on approach, on a 3 degree glidelope, when the manuals say it should be 2 up. There's obviously an error somewhere, as Ryan said, in regard to which information is correct in the documentation. It's great that PMDG are taking the time to investigate, many developers wouldn't. Martin Wilby

Here is more info,

If I'm reading that correctly Bigsky it says flaps 30 VREF+10 equates to one degree pitch up on the glide slope. So I guess that once again suggests that at VREF+5 it would be two degrees up. Not zero. It will be interesting what the PMDG adviser says in regard to the real aircraft. I posted a video from the real aircraft the other day, that demonstrated 2 degrees up. Martin Wilby

Hi Ryan, The unrealiable airspeed table is for approach while on the Glideslope ie. approx. 1 degree at 57% N1 etc etc. Thats not really the issue i have. My issue is really the attitude on Flare. Am sure your Type rated pilots (-700/-800) will agree it is just below the 5 degree line and not 2.5degree as you set for the NGX. That is the attitude you hold just prior to touchdown.

BraytonCycle, I would say pitch on approach is your problem. If the pitch on approach is higher, then your flare pitch will be higher too. You will get your 4-5 degree pitch up upon flare. Martin Wilby

If I'm reading that correctly Bigsky it says flaps 30 VREF+10 equates to one degree pitch up on the glide slope. So I guess that once again suggests that at VREF+5 it would be two degrees up. Not zero. It will be interesting what the PMDG adviser says in regard to the real aircraft. I posted a video from the real aircraft the other day, that demonstrated 2 degrees up. Martin Wilby

I agree. The training manual said that there will be about 1 degree change for every 5kts above or below vref + 5. I think both charts are correct for the speed flown.