you are starting your hostilities again .. you wonder why this forum doesnt have much traffic . Again, I would like to have both sp10 and flight be successful... .

I'm too busy and too old to be hostile. And if you can read hostility in a forum post that I expanded to more than any of your forum posts, then it tells me a lot more about what you do and don't understand.BTW, in your signature, it's spelt Caravan...Not Cavaran.Just extending my helpfulness...minus the hostility......Cavaran, MilViz C310R, .....Small Edit:If you think I'm the cause of low traffic to the x plane forums, because of my so called hostilities, then I am extremely flattered. However, I don't expect people to believe that I am a spokesperson or representative for x plane and I apologize to any people that may have gotten that perception. 36000 views in 11 days for this thread alone...(For a sim that hasn't even been released yet). What would constitute high traffic for you?

XP10's current marketing (or lack there of) is just confusing to me. That's why I'm skeptical.At this point, looking at the different blogs linked and screenshots, I can't figure out what's still XP9, XP10, or just experiments with scenery objects, different non-default photoscenery, google earth type programs, etc.Every shot has obvious graphical flaws which are always explained away as being scaled down on purpose, using some XP9 features, not being put together yet, etc.I can understand that but I'm ready to see a simple video of regular default flying of XP10 or at least something close to it, being a work in progress. Something that looks near to a completed product.Right now I see a lot of pretty pieces with ugly borders.

Here is my biggest problem with the XP10 stuff. Laminar isent showing us anything! We get XP10 aircraft in XP9, and XP10 scenery in XP9, so what is REALLY XP10? THIS IS TWO MONTHS AWAY FROM RELEASE?I have been an artist for over 10 years. I have a very well trained eye for BS, and there are some alarm bells ringing REALY LOUD here.As an artist, there are "tricks" we commonly use when we dont want people to see the truth. Let me fill you in on some of them.#1, Motion blur. If its blurry, you cant see detail, or the lack of detail. This does not apply to game for the most part, but blurring things does.#2, Shoot from far away. Like #1, it hides lack of detail.#3, Keep the scene dark. Again, hides lack of detail.Almost everything I have seen of XP10 suffers from #2 and 3, and that scares me. Have we seen a close up look at the aircraft? No. Almost all aircraft are shot from FAR FAR away. Also, a lot of the screenshots are very dark, again hiding details.When you release screenshots, put for best foot forward, as its how everyone will judge your product. If this is there best, 2 months away from release, then XP10 has problems.

Close enough? Scenery is XP9. Aircraft are XP10.As has been said before, no developer has all of xp10. Thats why the screenshots are varied.

Close enough? Scenery is XP9. Aircraft are XP10.

I havent seen those yet, but lets take a look. Shot 1. Directly behind the aircraft looks like FS2002. The aircraft looks OK, but no self shadowing? Im guessing this again is an "XP10 aircraft in XP9"? It says NOTHING about the capability of XP10, and only shows what a 3rd party can do in XP9. Rejected.Shot 2. The B2 looks great! The problem I have is there are area's of concern. The background is EXTREAMLY blurry. Remember what I said about #1? Also, the edges of the aircraft, and the left main gear are blurry. I have no real explination for this. Most of the DOF shaders I have seen in games (Depth of Focus) dont do this type of blurring. Its not motion blur, or heat blur from the engines. Its very.... Wrong. Im thinking its post, meaning the blur was added after the screenshot. If its in-game DOF, then its something to be impressed about, but needs work. Again though, is this a XP10 aircraft in XP9?Shot 3. Shuttle looks really nice! No self shadowing, and ##### is the background? Again, is this an XP10 aircraft in XP9? If all these shots are 3rd party aircraft, then isent this a demonstration of XP9 and not XP10? Honest question here.

you are starting your hostilities again .. you wonder why this forum doesnt have much traffic . Again, I would like to have both sp10 and flight be successful... .

BTW, just to address your "immersion" post. You say the shadows are not necessary to add real immersion. Calling them a secondary feature.I remember a certain FSX development team who added fingerprints to their screens (That can only be visible when the sun is at a certain angle) and bread crumbs to their center pedestal. Just curious, in all honesty, what's your opinion on that?

I havent seen those yet, but lets take a look.Shot 1. Directly behind the aircraft looks like FS2002. The aircraft looks OK, but no self shadowing? Im guessing this again is an "XP10 aircraft in XP9"? It says NOTHING about the capability of XP10, and only shows what a 3rd party can do in XP9. Rejected.Shot 2. The B2 looks great! The problem I have is there are area's of concern. The background is EXTREAMLY blurry. Remember what I said about #1? Also, the edges of the aircraft, and the left main gear are blurry. I have no real explination for this. Most of the DOF shaders I have seen in games (Depth of Focus) dont do this type of blurring. Its not motion blur, or heat blur from the engines. Its very.... Wrong. Im thinking its post, meaning the blur was added after the screenshot. If its in-game DOF, then its something to be impressed about, but needs work. Again though, is this a XP10 aircraft in XP9?Shot 3. Shuttle looks really nice! No self shadowing, and ##### is the background? Again, is this an XP10 aircraft in XP9?If all these shots are 3rd party aircraft, then isent this a demonstration of XP9 and not XP10? Honest question here.

I was addressing your statement about XP10 aircraft not being shown from close enough and not well lit. I wasn't trying to show scenery. If you want to see scenery, please see post #1 in this thread. Self shadowing IS possible in XP9 via shaders. If it isn't in a screenshot, it's because it has been disabled. So, addressing your original complaint, it can't be rejected because you only wanted to see close ups of AIRCRAFT. Not its surroundings.Same as the others.As I posted, yes, they are XP10 aircraft in XP9.All these screenshots are default xp10 aircraft. Developers were contracted to make them. They are not what I would call 3rd party aircraft.

As I posted, yes, they are XP10 aircraft in XP9.

That, right there, is the ROOT of my problem, and it seems like everyones problem. Has there OFFICIALLY been ANY screenshot of pure XP10 yet?

Oh no, with my 'forensic' examination of the KSAN video, I fear I may have triggered off too much...No point forensically examining pretty ancient default XP10 aircraft shots, that were ALL taken in XP9 environment. But an answer for Gib's shot 2 words - I'm 99% sure that Javier Rollon (the plane creator) would have shot that at his own freeware LESA scenery, which uses extensive photoscenery at the airport. THAT's why it's extremely blurry.And no, I don't think anyone has seen screens of 'pure' XP10 yet, that's what they're doing right now, putting it all together. Maybe Holland will show that. I really don't care, I'll see it complete when it's done and am not conjecturing about anything - Just like MS Flight. It's November here tomorrow, can't wait to see what they release to counter all of this! Here's hoping for non-hawaii shots..

That, right there, is the ROOT of my problem, and it seems like everyones problem. Has there OFFICIALLY been ANY screenshot of pure XP10 yet?

Seems like everyones' problem? I think you just revealed enough about yourself with that single statement to lose any credibility. Speak for yourself and anyone authorizing you to do so, but no one else. No there has not been any pure V10 screenshots thus far and we do not care that there has not yet, nor will we assemble one today just to make you or anybody else happy. If you cannot see the separate elements of V10.....the aircraft, the scenery, the airports and visualize the composite in your head...I would question your visualization skills as an artist; however, in due time, you will see screenshots of pure XP10 and you can make whatever observations you see fit at that time. As of now, you two are cluttering up the thread with your ridiculous debate.

2 months away, no real XP10 screenshot, and it doesent concern you? Wow. Just.... Wow. Faith like that doesent come all that often.

X-Plane has grown every year since I began messing with it MV and it's numbers are at an all time high. These are real numbers, not faith. This is not our first rodeo and we have historical statistical data to back up our decisions. People keep coming to x-plane, period. What doesn't concern me, after evaluation...is your opinion. I am relatively confident xplane will continue to grow without your business guidance. I'm going to bed, I'll catch up in 9 hours.-TomK

2 months away, no real XP10 screenshot, and it doesent concern you? Wow. Just.... Wow. Faith like that doesent come all that often.

Well, its better than Flight which has no release date, no technical information, and could very well turn into vaporware. I personally like to put my faith into the product that will definitely one day exist.

2 months away, no real XP10 screenshot, and it doesent concern you? Wow. Just.... Wow. Faith like that doesent come all that often.

If you knew, in detail, how X Plane worked (not just what you see, but the inner workings) your statement would have SOME merit. Seeing as you don't know how it is being developed, and the core development team at Laminar DO know, I'll put my trust in them.

Hi everyone, If you are so concern about X -plane 10, when the demo is out try it if you don't like it then don't buy it.

I was just asking some very valid questions. I guess they arnt welcome here.BTW, I never once mentioned or compared XP9/10 to FSX or Flight in my recent post's. So for the people who are calling me a ######, look in the mirror before you accuse anyone of that. I was just giving my honest impressions from an artistic point of view. Thanks for welcoming a new face into your XP world. Ill take my leave now, as im not welcome. Its really a shame, since I really like the overall technical background of XP series and many times contemplated developing aircraft for it.And I thought the FSX fans were brutal around here. Yikes.