I was just asking some very valid questions. I guess they arnt welcome here.BTW, I never once mentioned or compared XP9/10 to FSX or Flight in my recent post's. So for the people who are calling me a ######, look in the mirror before you accuse anyone of that. I was just giving my honest impressions from an artistic point of view. Thanks for welcoming a new face into your XP world. Ill take my leave now, as im not welcome. Its really a shame, since I really like the overall technical background of XP series and many times contemplated developing aircraft for it.And I thought the FSX fans were brutal around here. Yikes.

You come here slagging it and the developers off and then you play the victim when people try to prove you wrong and explain things?LOL, what did you expect?Just to clarify...here are some of your quotes...

Here is my biggest problem with the XP10 stuff. Laminar isent showing us anything!

Haven't shown ANYTHING?

I have been an artist for over 10 years. I have a very well trained eye for BS, and there are some alarm bells ringing REALY LOUD here.As an artist, there are "tricks" we commonly use when we dont want people to see the truth. Let me fill you in on some of them.#1, Motion blur. If its blurry, you cant see detail, or the lack of detail. This does not apply to game for the most part, but blurring things does.#2, Shoot from far away. Like #1, it hides lack of detail.#3, Keep the scene dark. Again, hides lack of detail.Almost everything I have seen of XP10 suffers from #2 and 3, and that scares me. Have we seen a close up look at the aircraft? No. Almost all aircraft are shot from FAR FAR away. Also, a lot of the screenshots are very dark, again hiding details.

Hardly JUST asking a few questions.

LOL, what did you expect?

Rational conversation? Guess that was too much?

Rational conversation? Guess that was too much?

I have rational conversations with rational people. If you want to have a sensible discussion, without accusing the X Plane dev team of BS, then I'm all for it! They have purposely witheld screenshots until now because they wanted to show EXACTLY what it would look like. No photoshopping, no BS. Just straight, hard factual screenshots. They haven't attempted to hide anything. So when you come in here and accuse them of lying or throwing up BS, and at least 2 or 3 developers try to explain things to you, only to turn it around and then play the victim, then yes, you are being irrational.

I posted my openion and gave a rational explination for that openion.

I posted my openion and gave a rational explination for that openion.

Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.I have shown you screenshots, closeups, of 3 different aircraft for x plane 10 because that is what you requested.The scenery and autogen has already been posted at the top of this thread.If no one has all of XP10, then there must be a reason for it. The core dev team are working in the specialized field. So there is no reason to send each of them all of XP10. Not to mention that sending 70GB+ of a flight sim to EACH member is time consuming and far from productive.Tom has tried explaining things. I don't really know or understand what it is you want us to say. We are being very rational and very fair. And you post a statement like "Laminar hasn't shown us ANYTHING!"And you're telling us you're being rational?As far as I'm concerned, and the vast majority of unbiased members here are concerned, what has been posted is exceptional and way beyond expectations. Like someone said earlier, if you don't like it, don't buy it. No one is forcing you to. But don't come in here and start mouthing off that you "smell BS" when NOTHING has been hidden and everything has been fully disclosed. Heck, they could have photoshopped the scenery and threw in XP10 default aircraft and said "This is how x plane will look" No, they said the aircraft is XP10 and the scenery is XP9. The maker of the aircraft doesn't want to spend days downloading scenery he doesn't need.

Please, look at it from my perspective. A potential customer, not familure with XP's development history, looking for information. Its TWO months away from release, and the only information available are XP9 screenshots, and artistically, im not impressed. This is not the typical of games or PC Simulators, so it raises alarmbells to me. I bring my concerns up, and I get attacked for daring to question the developers? Really? I can tell that your extreamly passionate about XP to defend it wish such zeal, but not every question is a direct attack on your beloved product. I had a very simple question. Why are all screenshots in XP9 two months away from release. I got an answer of "Its just how things are with Laminar". Thats fine, but it still rings alarm bells in me after being in game development for 13 years, but I guess Laminar doesent operate like a typical software company.

Please, look at it from my perspective. A potential customer, not familure with XP's development history, looking for information. Its TWO months away from release, and the only information available are XP9 screenshots, and artistically, im not impressed. This is not the typical of games or PC Simulators, so it raises alarmbells to me. I bring my concerns up, and I get attacked for daring to question the developers? Really?I can tell that your extreamly passionate about XP to defend it wish such zeal, but not every question is a direct attack on your beloved product. I had a very simple question. Why are all screenshots in XP9 two months away from release. I got an answer of "Its just how things are with Laminar". Thats fine, but it still rings alarm bells in me after being in game development for 13 years, but I guess Laminar doesent operate like a typical software company.

I think what people fail to realize, is that Laminar Research is not a huge corporation like Microsoft. Austin Meyer is the author of X Plane and he has a small staff of people that work for and with him. Namely, X Plane enthusiasts. He is not a company that get's complaints, requests or compliments and just throws them in the recycle bin. He will reply to every single email, and if he doesn't, he has a customer service department that does.There are things that have been done in X Plane 10 that, for whatever reason, have been held back for now. This should be respected. The Laminar team have never tried to cheat anyone with doctored screenshots or false statements. If they haven't shown something, it's because they are not happy with it. Simple as that. With X Plane 10, Austin has listened to customer feedback and responded with more than what the community have asked. I can see your perspective, but because the majority of new x plane users don't know how x plane is put together or how it works, it might be wiser to just take what is said at face value and then wait and see. I'm like this with everything in my life. As a developer, I welcome criticisms. But when some people single out a miniscule fault with something and blow it out of proportion or ask for unrealistic, unreasonable features (terrain that is being compared to a real photo), that kinda bugs me. It just seems these people are reaching for anything to put it down...no matter how far fetched it is. Try and picture an x plane enthusiast going to a Flight forum and criticising the most insignificant details. They would be ripped apart. Hell, they get ripped apart in these very x plane forums. I've even been told by an FSX user that he will vigorously defend FSX, even if it is in THESE x plane forums. I'm not saying x plane doesn't deserve criticisms, I'm saying keep it balanced and realistic.

Hi everyone, If you are so concern about X -plane 10, when the demo is out try it if you don't like it then don't buy it.

no xplane 10 demo yet ....

Ha, that earlier post comparing an incomplete xplane to Google Earth! So fair a comparison..FSX with no addons is still a cartoon compared to xplane 9.I tried Utimate Terrain X Europe for fsx, great night lighting, roads not bad either, but still looks too much like fettuccine. Oh dear, then when I tried GEX Europe on top of UTX, I got chug-city and the textures did not impress that much more.I wasn't even impressed with the textures I saw at Orbx's PNW mountain regions.So comparing any sim to Screenies of GE is unfair. Xplane is a world simulator- it covers the entire globe. Just think of how big that job is. Xplane 9 takes over 60gigs to fully install. How huge would it be if you wanted GE quality textures?!Those who want the best textures will always use photo textures. I personally won't fly anywhere in xplane without them. Yes, if you know what you're doing, you can get free photo textures for any area, even Tasmania:

I hope the new autogen and global textures reduce the need for such things, but if not, I'll keep using the amazing tool. Plus there's some amazing payware textures for xplane, like Realscenery and UK photo scenery. Sheesh, one of the uk packs, of 4, is over 60gig! Worth it though.Each of my own private photo downloads takes 1 gig, for only 50sq km. Work that out for the globe.A fairer comparison might be to ED's A10-C. That has impressive lighting and shadow effects, excellent textures and clouds. I have it. But even now I rarely fly it, as bombing the same old scenery eventually tires one out. Xp10 scenery looks better than this. You'll be in for a treat me thinks!Re. Shadows- of course they're cool! Its ridiculous to debate anything that doesn't add to atmosphere and distractions for pilots. Plus, as a video maker, itll be incredible. Just look at what self shadowing does for a10:

So this long post just says- compare apples with apples, and don't expect miracles from a global sim that only takes up 100 gig. But what it does with those 100g is pretty good from what I can see from these (early, pre beta) pics.Oh, and lap up EVERY innovation developed, it's all for your benefit.

Hi Simmo.I assume you mean my comparison screenshot? Obviously the Google Earth screen grab was in there for reference just to see how well both X-plane and FSX handle placements of roads etc. X-plane 10 does a superlative job of this (I'm guessing that's where the OSM data has proven it's worth) and to be honest I think FSX copes pretty well for an older platform with it's use of NAVTEQ data, but I think it's landclass looks a little dated compared to X-plane 10's. But as you mention a fairer comparison would have been with something like 'Flight' which is based on newer technology.Very exciting stuff though. Can't wait to see more screenies hopefully we'll get more this week.CheersRhydian

Have you tried looking at the scenery when there are no clouds. Looking at the reflection in the lake, it seems as though there is a giant cloud reflecting in it that is right overhead. The clouds cast shadows on the ground. So if there is a huge cloud overhead, it will make the scenery look darker. Not sure of your settings, but this COULD, and probably is the reason.

HelloNo it is not my display, it is calibrated well enough.It is not just that clip, it is throughout the Video and also in most screenshots that I have seen, just a very dark and dull world, even with the sun shining in a blue sky the ground colours seem off in relation to reality.The visibility also does not seem to correctly match the conditions, seeming to be fogged in at the horizon.I would like to see some shots with unlimited visibility at altitude and also some shots of the water on a sunny cloudless day because all the water I have seen so far looks way to dark and mirror like, I see no waves or water movement .Looks like ink.

HelloNo it is not my display, it is calibrated well enough.It is not just that clip, it is throughout the Video and also in most screenshots that I have seen, just a very dark and dull world, even with the sun shining in a blue sky the ground colours seem off in relation to reality.The visibility also does not seem to correctly match the conditions, seeming to be fogged in at the horizon.I would like to see some shots with unlimited visibility at altitude and also some shots of the water on a sunny cloudless day because all the water I have seen so far looks way to dark and mirror like, I see no waves or water movement .Looks like ink.

Not sure about the scenery. I think Simon addressed that in an earlier post.The water is something people have asked Austin to change. Seasonal colors, tropical colors, etc...I THINK it's getting addressed for xp10. But don't quote me on that. If not for initial release, maybe in an update.

Not sure about the scenery. I think Simon addressed that in an earlier post.The water is something people have asked Austin to change. Seasonal colors, tropical colors, etc...I THINK it's getting addressed for xp10. But don't quote me on that. If not for initial release, maybe in an update.

Hello GoranDon't get me wrong I will be buying it on day 1, I hope that with folk like REX now developing for XP that these issues will be resolved.A lot of times we really need to see the code run on our own machines before we can truly judge the product.

A lot of times we really need to see the code run on our own machines before we can truly judge the product.

Absolutely, 100% agree.

mad dog, on 31 October 2011 - 06:38 AM, said:

A lot of times we really need to see the code run on our own machines before we can truly judge the product.

Like stated before, when the DEMO is released, you can get a look at it.For those of us who fly XPlane we already can see the differences and are really looking forward to this release.

Actually, its not. It looks like the surface of OATMEAL, not the surface of earth. The textures are all streaked and streatched in random directions! There is no real definition to the topo at all as its all low resolution mesh's, and its monochromatic. Im not impressed, and quite frankly, if this impresses anyone, I have a golden bridge for sale sitting outside San Fran. Any takers? I havent seen one thing thats impressive in XP10 other then the night time shots, and thats not saying much when 90% of the screenshot is BLACK. Every time I bring up how uninspiring these screenshots are, people keep tossing excuses around that its XP9 this and XP9 that. Its just a sad state considering is supposed to be 2 months away from release, and all there dev shots are using DX9.

I actually 'mis-spoke' when making that comment.What I actually meant to say was 'you can't argue that this is brilliant.'I think it looks absolutely awful as well.