My instructor drilled the fact that you should have everything relevent and some not so relevent on board prior to departure for any flight outside the local pattern.The other drill was sticking the tanks and checking for water prior to startup for pattern work. A real stickler on weather and all other safety aspects including flight planning and execution.

When I flew in pre-GPS days the practice was that the flight was fully planned and all the necessary charts etc were on-board unless it was a short local flight returning to the same airfield. The club would have kicked out anyone who sdidn't comply.

When I flew in pre-GPS days the practice was that the flight was fully planned and all the necessary charts etc were on-board unless it was a short local flight returning to the same airfield. The club would have kicked out anyone who sdidn't comply.

The club isn't a regulatory body, is it? Up to date charts are not required for most part 91 operators. Even the chief counsel has clarified this fact. Large turbine powered and multi-engine aircraft under part 91 are required to have up to date charts, but not most other operators (again, part 91).On the other hand.... If out-of-date charts or no charts at all are a contributing factor to an incident/accident in an enforcement action investigation, guess what? The evidence can be used against you!Another case of the FAA giving you enough rope to hang yourself. Of course it's not the FAA's fault if you decided to leave without charts when you should have brought them along...

The other drill was sticking the tanks and checking for water prior to startup for pattern work. A real stickler on weather and all other safety aspects including flight planning and execution.

It absolutely astounds me when I watch folks climb into an aircraft without checking the fuel sumps and levels. Some guys at the local airport also don't mind skipping over checking oil levels, or a general walk around for that matter.

The club isn't a regulatory body, is it?

No, that's why I said practice. However, it was effectively a regulatory body for those who didn't own our own aircraft. Get thrown out of one club and it would be difficult, if not impossible, to join another in the UK

The club isn't a regulatory body, is it? Up to date charts are not required for most part 91 operators. Even the chief counsel has clarified this fact. Large turbine powered and multi-engine aircraft under part 91 are required to have up to date charts, but not most other operators (again, part 91).

I most definitely would not want to be at the hearing trying to argue that to the administrative law judge. :)

No, that's why I said practice. However, it was effectively a regulatory body for those who didn't own our own aircraft. Get thrown out of one club and it would be difficult, if not impossible, to join another in the UK

I am only saying these things to spur a little conversation.

I most definitely would not want to be at the hearing trying to argue that to the administrative law judge. :)

Argue what? The chief counsels' ruling is final. It's not an argument, it's fact. But yeah, me neither. lol

Argue what? The chief counsels' ruling is final. It's not an argument, it's fact. But yeah, me neither. lol

Trying to argue that the lack of charts or lack of current charts did not contribute to an enforcement action for my part 91 flight.

§ 91.13 Careless or reckless operation.(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.This one they can make stick for any screw-up you make.

Valcor's answer is one of those kind of responses that concerns me... sure you can do it... you can also be hit with a number of FAR violations besides 91.103 including (as Chris said) the "catch-all" FAR for "Careless and Reckless" operation, violating a TFR... and have the pleasure of interviews with local law enforcement, the Secret Service, and the FAA along with a high likelihood of a couple month suspension of your Certificate.As has been said by many... many times... General Aviation lost its innocence with 9/11.

Seriously though guys, ADS-B capable equipment is great but I call FServices to hear them tell me rather or not there are TFRs active/planned.

The "nice" thing (actually extremely important thing) about calling Flight Service and having asked for a Full Brief is now you are "on record" for having checked for TFRs. Which apparently means "something" when the FAA goes to try to pull your certificate.Ron sounds like you had a great instructor. Sticking the tanks? What kind of plane? I did this for the Seminole. PA-28-161s have a tab... at that level 17 gals remain. Can't remember on the 152s or 172s except I didn't get a thrill having to climb on top of the wing. Yes, always did the sump check. Preflighting the plane itself started the moment it came into view.

Ron sounds like you had a great instructor. Sticking the tanks? What kind of plane? I did this for the Seminole. PA-28-161s have a tab... at that level 17 gals remain. Can't remember on the 152s or 172s except I didn't get a thrill having to climb on top of the wing. Yes, always did the sump check. Preflighting the plane itself started the moment it came into view.

HaHa, Ozzie he was and is a "by the book guy" with an extra helping of, and emphasis on, safety and preparedness for this thing we call flight. Not surprising considering his Navy background.The trainer in question was a C150 but to this day be it doesn't matter what type, I'm looking at the brakes/struts/empenage/spinner/prop/fluid spots/glass, etc.as I approach the aircraft even when I won't be PIC.He was an instructor who was interested in never having a student pilot end up on the wrong end of an aviation story. Great guy too.PS: I too hated getting the ladder for the wings/fuel check, especially on those cold mornings in the unheated hangar.

The "nice" thing (actually extremely important thing) about calling Flight Service and having asked for a Full Brief is now you are "on record" for having checked for TFRs. Which apparently means "something" when the FAA goes to try to pull your certificate.

I could care less about calling Flight Service. Haven't done it for years. I paid extra for XM Weather on my Garmins, and it did it's job in regards to current TFRs. I'd check weather and TFR's before flight on the internet. XM kept me updated while in flight. Always have had current sectionals. XM weather, could even update the change in shape of a TFR while you're in flight. This happend with a forrest fire TFR, earlier this year. I suppose you could find that out...........if you keep calling Flight Service all day. BTW--- also carried SPOT (GPS locator) to replace "filing a flight plan".....in case something goes wrong.As to the original question................using a GPS these days, insn't much like the black line leading from point A to B of yesteryear. A modern moving map, with up dated data bases, will have all of those reatricted areas, mountains, obstacles, airport info, etc.........that will help keep a pilot from blindly following a magenta or black line. XM tosses in the weather too. For hundred of miles (or more) around you.L.Adamson

Valcor's answer is one of those kind of responses that concerns me... sure you can do it... you can also be hit with a number of FAR violations besides 91.103 including (as Chris said) the "catch-all" FAR for "Careless and Reckless" operation, violating a TFR... and have the pleasure of interviews with local law enforcement, the Secret Service, and the FAA along with a high likelihood of a couple month suspension of your Certificate.

Where exactly are you finding TFR information on a chart? The question was do/can you fly without a chart. Yes, you can and safely. You can not be charged with "Careless and Reckless" for just not having a chart unless you've done something else that warrants investigation. There is nothing "concerning" about it. Exercise common sense, know your local area and do your preflight routine (which includes more than just physically checking out an aircraft).

I could care less about calling Flight Service. Haven't done it for years. I paid extra for XM Weather on my Garmins, and it did it's job in regards to current TFRs. I'd check weather and TFR's before flight on the internet. XM kept me updated while in flight. Always have had current sectionals. XM weather, could even update the change in shape of a TFR while you're in flight. This happend with a forrest fire TFR, earlier this year. I suppose you could find that out...........if you keep calling Flight Service all day. BTW--- also carried SPOT (GPS locator) to replace "filing a flight plan".....in case something goes wrong.As to the original question................using a GPS these days, insn't much like the black line leading from point A to B of yesteryear. A modern moving map, with up dated data bases, will have all of those reatricted areas, mountains, obstacles, airport info, etc.........that will help keep a pilot from blindly following a magenta or black line. XM tosses in the weather too. For hundred of miles (or more) around you.L.Adamson

You could care less about calling FS? K. And I have a problem with people like that during BFRs. "Oops, my cigarette lighter charger quit working. Now what the hell do I do?"And if you bust an airspace and get violated, you can tell the inspector that your GPS didn't show that TFR and you're not on file having talked to flight services. I have a friend that does a certain part 91 run everyday near the Washington DC area (I used to do it). This exact thing happened to him. His GNS496 failed to "mention" to him that there was a new TFR in a place he wasn't used to seeing them. Guess what happened? An F-16 intercepted him, a Blackhawk escorted him out of the area, and state police and secret service greeted him with assault rifles. Guess what he didn't do that day? Call Raleigh Flight Services and spend 5 minutes getting an abbreviated briefing.PS. He was lucky. He got to keep his ratings.

You could care less about calling FS? K. And I have a problem with people like that during BFRs. "Oops, my cigarette lighter charger quit working. Now what the hell do I do?"And if you bust an airspace and get violated, you can tell the inspector that your GPS didn't show that TFR and you're not on file having talked to flight services.

Don't need to worry about that Zach... his XM service will pay the attorney fees... keep his license from being suspended... etc.. .etc...

Where exactly are you finding TFR information on a chart?

Who said I did??? I said where they could be found and you would be covered... read again...Edit:Plus (re: the charts) I said "besides 91.103" so read it again, thank you very much!

Don't need to worry about that Zach... his XM service will pay the attorney fees... keep his license from being suspended... etc.. .etc...

Holy Behjeesus!!! So the $360 per year really is worth it?!