HaHa, Ozzie he was and is a "by the book guy" with an extra helping of, and emphasis on, safety and preparedness for this thing we call flight.

I am like that too Ron... a stickler for knowing Regs (and abiding by them)... stickler for knowing the POH inside/out... knowing the AIM... I was the type that NEVER carried an out of date chart... I felt like if I couldn't afford a current one I didn't need to be flying. Personal mins were invariably above what was spelled out in the Regs...Do everything humanly possible to do the "right" thing to stay safe... so one can enjoy the wonder of flight.-Rob=========================================With respect to certain posts here... I see "the pilot ending up on the wrong end of an aviation story". Hopefully the attitude / mindset I see is nothing more than my misreading the post or forum bravado...How many of us have the plaque in their office w/ the below pic and inscription..."Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect". Capt. A. G. Lamplugh

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect". Capt. A. G. Lamplugh

Airplanes aren't liable to hurt you, but they can damn sure kill you.

his XM service will pay the attorney fees... keep his license from being suspended... etc.. .etc...

LOL.. Similar to how they'll pay the attorney fees for when I rear end someone in the car while listening to my XM radio?Had someone show up for an IPC once, I kid you not was like a fish out of water when I turned off the GNS530 (he didn't help matters much by having an expired database loaded).Being an Electrical Engineer, I absolutely love technology and promote it's use, but unfortunately I've seen more and more "Children of the Magenta Line" in recent times.

wow what a response! I thought you shouldn't just wondering, I am not a real world pilot nor will I ever be, I do treat fsx as "real" and sometimes, I like to go on a trip and I get tired of doing all the paperWORK, so I either I do it right or play some other sim..

Ozzie, Zach, and Red-have you ever called FSS and asked about a tfr and they said they really didn't know-cause I have!I agree that I always want to call to have a legal record by making the phone call (though my understanding is logging on with duats does the same) but have also experienced that both fss and atc sometimes can be in the dark, and a gps may provide the info they don't have.An example is when I was flying from Knoxville to Michigan and there was a "moving" tfr-the president was in a bus moving across the state. He was supposed to be out of the area by 5 pm-but at 5:30 and 100 miles out I asked if the tfr due to expire at 5pm around my home airport had expired and if I would be able to land -atc didn't know-fss didn't know either.I have also had cases like cessnaflyer mentioned of flying in supposed "clear" airspace-a tfr popping up on the gps atc didn't know about. Supposedly if you are in contact with atc you are ok-but I still call them (for the legal record) and state I am showing a tfr on my gps-would they like me to circumnavigate it.So let's not poo poo the gps and xm/adds-b-very useful...and the xm weather on the da-40 I fly now is on the g1000-no portable cord needed...

You could care less about calling FS? K. And I have a problem with people like that during BFRs. "Oops, my cigarette lighter charger quit working. Now what the hell do I do?"

Get over it. I'm one of thousands, that's got past that.....................with a new information age. I get more info in an easily understood manner, than could ever be done over the phone. Best..........not to discuss this on a sim forum, anyway.L.Adamson

Being an Electrical Engineer, I absolutely love technology and promote it's use, but unfortunately I've seen more and more "Children of the Magenta Line" in recent times.

Just put me down as a 60 year old adult, who has seen far too many aircraft plastered on rising terrain. Since the 1930's, they have left their mark, all over my mountainous flying area...............not to mention the rest of the world. It's that magenta line, that could have been the saving grace..............had it been available. As Geof said, let's don't poo-hoo this technology. I generally don't discuss this on flight sim, or student pilot forums, It ALWAYS gets the same results, since so many participants are behind the times.........so to speak. Over and out....L.Adamson

Geofa (and L.Adamson),You mis-understood (or I didn't clarify enough). I am 100% for technology and its use in the cockpit. Having flown G1000 with XM, TIS, Garmin A/P, and Synthetic Vision, I can't imagine how we got along without. My "Children of the Magenta Line" comment refers to those pilots (and sim pilots) who just follow the line, without really understanding what the equipment is telling them. I've personally observed people plug in Direct-To a fix, not realize it's not what they want (they selected a user waypoint with similar identifier) and head 180 degrees in the wrong direction, simply because the line pointed them that way. Even knew a CFI (while I don't agree specifically with the tactic) who used to insert a user waypoint with the same identifier as the airport, but was several thousand miles away, just to see if students could intepret the information correctly.Or worse, have seen several people try and use XM weather to make tactical avoidance decisions in the air.GPS (and especially XM wx) are two of the best things to happen to aviation safety in my opinion. But there is an increased responsibility on the PIC when using the technology.Back to the original question, hopping in a plane and just going for a ride without checking any information. Sure, people do it. I've done it (I'm talking flight navigation information, not something stupid like failure to conduct a proper a/c pre-flight). However, if something goes wrong, you'd better be ready to explain how you met the requirements of 91.103.Another reason that I'd normally file IFR if going anywhere outside the local area.

Ozzie, Zach, and Red-have you ever called FSS and asked about a tfr and they said they really didn't know-cause I have!I agree that I always want to call to have a legal record by making the phone call (though my understanding is logging on with duats does the same) but have also experienced that both fss and atc sometimes can be in the dark, and a gps may provide the info they don't have.An example is when I was flying from Knoxville to Michigan and there was a "moving" tfr-the president was in a bus moving across the state. He was supposed to be out of the area by 5 pm-but at 5:30 and 100 miles out I asked if the tfr due to expire at 5pm around my home airport had expired and if I would be able to land -atc didn't know-fss didn't know either.I have also had cases like cessnaflyer mentioned of flying in supposed "clear" airspace-a tfr popping up on the gps atc didn't know about. Supposedly if you are in contact with atc you are ok-but I still call them (for the legal record) and state I am showing a tfr on my gps-would they like me to circumnavigate it.So let's not poo poo the gps and xm/adds-b-very useful...and the xm weather on the da-40 I fly now is on the g1000-no portable cord needed...

No one is denying the usefulness of the GPS. Heck, I can operate the GNS430/530 with my eyes closed. But when brilliant people chock calling flight services up as a waste of time, I get a little irked.

Get over it. I'm one of thousands, that's got past that.....................with a new information age. I get more info in an easily understood manner, than could ever be done over the phone. Best..........not to discuss this on a sim forum, anyway.L.Adamson

??? Why..... can't we discuss it.............. in here? Anyway, another pilot's violations aren't my concern unless my name is in their log book. *Over it*

To be honest I have found fss can sometimes (especially now with fss people being in another state or completely different geographic area) be far less knowlegable about weather data, familiar with the area of flight etc than what I can find on the internet or other sources. I am a proponent of using all data available to the pilot as stated in the regs, but certainly don't hold fss out as the holy grail anymore, although I always call them (after studying greatly the duats briefing).

To be honest I have found fss can sometimes (especially now with fss people being in another state or completely different geographic area) be far less knowlegable about weather data, familiar with the area of flight etc than what I can find on the internet or other sources. I am a proponent of using all data available to the pilot as stated in the regs, but certainly don't hold fss out as the holy grail anymore, although I always call them (after studying greatly the duats briefing).

Than you certainly understand the only point I'm trying to make here, Geof! Calling flight service is how you CYOA.

Calling flight service is how you CYOA.

Sadly, due to lack of local knowledge and the availability of much more visual, easier to interpret online material, CYOA is becoming the only thing calling flight service is good for.Most GA commercial/charter operations are certified to use only online means INSTEAD of calling FSS to obtain preflight information.

Count me in as one of those hard core safety guys. Every preflight I have ever done has ALWAYS been a complete preflight. It doesn't matter how long it had been since I had flown it. You never know when some ramp guy could accidentally fuel up the wrong plane and that fuel may have some water in it or whatever the case may be. Call it paranoid, but if I'm responsible for that flight I'm going to make damn sure I know everything about that aircraft I possibly can. Besides, I'm only paying for it when the prop is turning so who cares how long it takes me to walk around it. I even once had a CFI make fun of me for it. I've always hoped he was just trying see if I would, "cave," and not do the whole preflight if he goaded me a bit but I'm not entirely sure he was.

Hi Geof,I was just making a simple point (to which you state you agree)... no one I see poopooing XM GPS. Or putting FSS on a pedestal. It's just part of the process.Dan / Zach / Noah make great points. (Btw Zach... CG on the new Certificate!)Part of the OP's question (hopping into a plane and zooming off) brings to mind so many reasons why not to do that. Sure you *can*... and again... as a result you *can* end up writing a "Never Again" article... or much worse. -Rob

In the UK it is a criminal offence to not fly with a paper chart! If the pilot does use GPS it is only allowed for route confirmation after having checked the chart.vololiberista