And Ray that's the beauty of the Internet, and Forums any a-hole can crap all over the work someone else has done because they have invested nothing, including taking the time to proof read their own posts. I have invested nothing in either of the two products, either, but I appreciate the work that the Guys at MILVIS, IRIS and VRS do. You have fun slinging mud, though, I can stand to lose that two cents, I got a jar full of pennies right here.BTW Thank you for your Service.

LOL.......hmmm a jar hey...well thats a good investment for the next upcoming topics......didnt meant it negativeYeah wel let me put it this way, i excually wasnt ever intended to sling tha mud, its more like shoot only when people shoot at ya....Thank you too!

LOL.......hmmm a jar hey...well thats a good investment for the next upcoming topics......didnt meant it negativeYeah wel let me put it this way, i excually wasnt ever intended to sling tha mud, its more like shoot only when people shoot at ya....Thank you too!

Ray... I owe you this, I grabbed your quote in the first post only because it was an example of the broader "Its Not Perfect" complaints, and was not an attempt on my part to single you out, I am sorry if you felt that it did, not my intention. My bad on that part.As for my Jar, its saved for all sorts of internet flare ups... You should have seen the one about the... well never mind, not the right place for that. My response was a volley back your way, we of the thick skin can handle a barb or two!

@Victory, you said this:1. Very rarely do Military VCs matchup with their real world counterparts. How many Block revisions does the F-15E have right now? I'm not even going to mention the different variants for the over seas models. Well you better not tell VRS, A2A, or even Aerosoft that, cause they take the time to make them right. Are you kidding me about the variations, it's not a MLU, they have. The cockpit is the same for each block. I hope you could come with more then that. Also until recently it was primarily US until congress allowed Boeing to sell foreign nations, such as S. Korea, and Israel.Which all had the same cockpit.@kdfw amd Dougal,I guess you guys would know the business. I honestly just was trying to help here, and I see was nothing but attacked by people who are afraid to admit when they are wrong. As for myself, I have been to AVSIM conventions years ago, Downloaded their files and read their reviews, just because I joined this forum Dec 1 has nothing to do with anything. Please accept my apologizes for any negative feelings I may have caused. Happy Thoughts gentlemen, Just trying to clear up a point that Ray had stated, cause like some of us I find the Eagle to be an aircraft close to my heart.Glenn the Guerrilla Marketeer! <---LOL, I like that, thanks.

Well i dont want to spend too much time on the Milviz site.......got better things to do....So you can keep your snappy replies for yourself........

As opposed perhaps to your snarky posts? There's no need to go elsewhere, since the service pack has been mentioned at least three times in this very thread (see #45 et alia).For the record, I have no pony in this race at all. In fact, I don't even have the F-15E installed. It just annoys me to no end to see blatantly obvious shills for a competing developer involved in trying to tear down a competitor's product.

Competing?.....dude i am not with a developer, i just like to face on facts thats all...the eagle goes to my heart and it hurts seeing a known company wich made good products in the past, making these faults....And the points which hurts the most is, that even if the service pack has been mentioned in this thread, i was just reacting on acting......but suddenly getting spiked as a single target.But Bill lets be honest, i know you have a horse at Milviz, that doesnt mean i want my pony in there too.......I respect all the people that has been on this product but still its like a FUBAR MIKE.......and thats a sad thing especially when you have been looking out for a good result....Ray out!

Competing?.....dude i am not with a developer, i just like to face on facts thats all...the eagle goes to my heart and it hurts seeing a known company wich made good products in the past, making these faults....And the points which hurts the most is, that even if the service pack has been mentioned in this thread, i was just reacting on acting......but suddenly getting spiked as a single target.But Bill lets be honest, i know you have a horse at Milviz, that doesnt mean i want my pony in there too.......I respect all the people that has been on this product but still its like a FUBAR MIKE.......and thats a sad thing especially when you have been looking out for a good result....Ray out!

Well Ray, if you don´t like it that much and they´ve made that obvious mistakes (Checked the pic´s, don´t see any!), than do it better yourself! How a bout that? Than you can complain against yourself and don´t have to denigrate everyone who like the plane!

@Victory, you said this:1. Very rarely do Military VCs matchup with their real world counterparts. How many Block revisions does the F-15E have right now? I'm not even going to mention the different variants for the over seas models.Well you better not tell VRS, A2A, or even Aerosoft that, cause they take the time to make them right.Are you kidding me about the variations, it's not a MLU, they have. The cockpit is the same for each block. I hope you could come with more then that. Also until recently it was primarily US until congress allowed Boeing to sell foreign nations, such as S. Korea, and Israel.Which all had the same cockpit.

I want to point out, I do not have a dog in this show, I know people on both of the F-15E teams, and consider them friends so keep that in mind, I am not protecting or picking one side over the other.Glenn you are correct about VRS and A2A, and while I am not versed in the F-15E I know the Super Hornet fairly well and from Lot to Lot there are In fact Minor Changes in the Cockpit. (Which you can verify in the NATOPS Manual) Which is only what I was trying to point out. (In point of fact there are even some minor changes from BuNO to BuNO in some lots) The VRS is modeled in the LOT 21 or there abouts. I was only pointing out that there can and are some minor changes made to cockpits over time. And someone who worked on an early block or lot of aircraft may say that X isn't right or Z should be a lighter shady of grey, when the references that the model was built off of are later than what the Expert worked on/flew. Your points on the MLU are well taken, and again while I cannot account for anything F-15 related, the Baby Hornets differ for overseas sales than the stock USN/USMC Hornets that were rolling off the line at the same time. I would ask how you know that all the cockpits for the E,I,SG etc are all the same when changes were made in some of the avionics packages to facilitate the requests of the purchasing nation. Again, I am asking because that stuff interests me, not calling you out.

Yes the avionic packages are different but the frame and overall cockpit structure remains the same. IE, the UFC looks the same, the MFDs look the same, the FLCS is the same including the throttle, they all are the same, except for redesign of the front windscreen and again the avionics displayed. My point is the Milviz's VC is very off in terms of modeling, which concerns me since they keep referring to it being exact. I keep hearing a patch is coming out, but will it really fix these things? The things they won't mention? I think that is where we come to the issue.I'm like a lot of people, we are just looking for a good F-15 to visually look at in the sim and experience an immersion which you and I both want. Majority of people don't really know what a real F-15E looks like and some do. So I hope nobody twist my concerns as attacking a developer, I am just trying to point out something that I know about an aircraft. So which ever company has the best overall aircraft I will choose to buy. I say this cause if Iris had released theirs first and I found an issue I will let them know as well, I would only hope as I do here that we can discuss things in a professional manner.Glenn

Im wondering if I'm the only one that feels the tension in this thread? We should all take deep breaths and meditate.....OOOHHHMMM!!!Agree to disagree! OK

Would some kind moderator please put this thread to death, please.

Please don't. Then the trolls win. Thanks.

Please don't. Then the trolls win. Thanks.

I totally agree... easy enough to spot and ignore a juvenile who is trolling.

Yeah, I understand, but it makes for a really depressing read.It just turns me off to the point I want to take up stamp-collecting. To have such bad manners, and to display such a lack of respect for the developers genuine efforts to produce what must be an incredibly difficult aircraft to replicate, leaves such a bad taste in ones' mouth - I despair for the motivation to continue such work.

I appreciate that and it upsets me too but, actually, it means that we are doing a good job... Only the really good ones get attacked.

Yeah, I understand, but it makes for a really depressing read.It just turns me off to the point I want to take up stamp-collecting. To have such bad manners, and to display such a lack of respect for the developers genuine efforts to produce what must be an incredibly difficult aircraft to replicate, leaves such a bad taste in ones' mouth - I despair for the motivation to continue such work.

right on