Pull the Plug on the FLIGHT Forum.

[maxter 0]

Not because its been dumbed down, but because Microsoft have set up a major obstacle to would-be developers. DLC, developers by Invite only, no freeware allowed - to mentioned but a few of the suffocating restrictions imposed

That's a load of old cobblers if I ever saw one... If the MS authorized developers deliver DLC that is half decent and at a reasonable price, Flight will succeed, irrespective of whether there is freeware involved or not... Bah this argument is getting more stupid every day,,, unbelievable.I am reasonably certain some of that content is being worked on right at this moment :(

[malibu43 2]

There are four types of people that discuss MS Flight on various forums:1. People that haven't tried it and have a negative view of it.2. People that haven't tried it and have a positive view of it.3. People that have tired it (beta) and have a negative view of it.4. People that have tried it (beta) and have a postitive view of it.Now, the people in groups 1 and 2 are basing their opinions of off what little, ambiguous information is available from M$ and the M$ Trailers. Based on that, I'm not sure they have enough information to be able to say what kind of sim/game it will or won't be.The people in groups 3 and 4 have enough information to answer a lot of these questions and would have very valuable input in discussion like the one in this thread, but they can't say anything due to the NDA.So, we have a discussion regarding what kind of game/sim this is and if it will be "good" or not that involves groups of people who haven't tried it and groups of people that have tried it but can't talk about it. I'm not sure what the point of this discussion is...

Edited January 27, 2012 by malibu43

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Furthermore, I will not miss a chance to criticise Microsoft for their business model with Flight on one hand, whilst on the other try to promote and support X-plane as much as possible. I never had an axe to grind before but Microsoft gave me one.

Jason, come on now, be reasonable. Maybe you should consider withdrawing from these discussions as it does not matter to you what is said by anyone else here, if as you say, your primary remaining purpose is to discredit Microsoft and Flight, and as a side benefit, help to promote X-Plane. You can be any way you want to be, however, there are others here that are equally sincere in their criticism of flight yet want to be fair. Obviously, if what you say is true, you couldn't care less about being fair and accurate, as long as you get your insult or kick in. If that is your motive, thank you for admitting it but hope that you quit it for the sake of the others who agree with you but don't want to be smeared with the same brush.Kind regards,

[JasonD210 0]

That's a load of old cobblers if I ever saw one... If the MS authorized developers deliver DLC that is half decent and at a reasonable price, Flight will succeed, irrespective of whether there is freeware involved or not... Bah this argument is getting more stupid every day,,, unbelievable

The only unbelievable arguments to my mind are the ones like yours, because there's little or no reasoning behind what you say. All I see are just hopes and a general belief that it will be good. What you fail to acknowledge is that Microsoft have put development and any form of active engagement out of reach of the likes of you or I and countless other people. We shan't even be able to fix up our local aerodrome, because Microsoft have taken the step of owning the playing ground. That's closed the door on a vast great resource of potential talent. We can't do anything with this sim. To my mind that's half of the fun gone from the simulator. Same applies to small, insignificant companies, interest groups and would be developers. Projects like Project Tupolev will suffer because there is now a pressure that the product has to be commercial and all that entails - deadlines, marketing perssure and so on. Nothing can be released as is - everything as to be meet Micorsoft's expectations and is subject to their approval. Furthermore, the only justification for this is commercial greed. Not being content to produce a game, and then engage in fair competition with other companies to produce add-ons, they have made an unreasonable and to my mind unfeasible attempt to take entire control of the market.This is nothing new with Microsoft. It's yet another example of anti-competitive behaviour as we once saw back in the 1990s when Microsoft tried to exclude 3rd party browsers from its Windows platform.

[JasonD210 0]

Jason, come on now, be reasonable. Shouldn't you withdraw from these discussions as it does not matter a wit to you what is said by anyone else here, as your only remaining purpose is to discredit Flight and thereby help to promote X-Plane?

Actually, I'm not an X-plane user. I bought X-plane 9 and tried it out, but currently do not have it installed. I think X-plane is currently an inferior product when compared to FS2004 or FSX and you can quote me on that! My whole set up here is FSX. I am very much fond of A2A simulations and their Accusim products, and also the PMDG / Level D add-ons. I've spent quite a bit of moeny on it, and being British, I'll most likely be buying the ORBX scenery for it when it comes out.However, I realise that there are a few X-plane fanatics around and that by making repeated references to X-plane I put myself at risk of being grouped with them. The reason I keep refering to X-plane is that it appears to be the only simulator with a future that allows unrestricted and open 3rd party development. It's the business model that I support, not the simulator. I have explained several times now why I have critcised Flight. Not to discredit it, but to criticise Microsoft's business model. By so doing there is a chance they will change it - if we all remain silent they won't. Apart from that, I think Flight is ok - the gold coins and flying through hoops part doesn't bother me so much, so long as it has the potential to be developed.

Obviously, if what you say is true, you couldn't care less about being fair and accurate, as long as you get your insult or kick in. If that is your motive, thank you for admitting it but hope that you quit it for the sake of the others who agree with you but don't want to be smeared with the same brush.Kind regards,

I'm not sure what you mean Stephen. Have I really come across like that? It certainly is not my motive and I'm certainly not aware of having insulted or "kicked" anyone. If you're asking me to quit, you are and administrator here and I will of course respect your judgement.

[JasonD210 0]

Also, I would add Stephen, that I have said in this thread a couple of times that I believe this Flight forum should remain open, because I believe Flight will be a good way to get new people involved in the genre and that can only be good, both for our hobby and for AVSIM.

[n4gix 4,947]

I have explained several times now why I have critcised Flight. Not to discredit it, but to criticise Microsoft's business model. By so doing there is a chance they will change it - if we all remain silent they won't. Apart from that, I think Flight is ok - the gold coins and flying through hoops part doesn't bother me so much, so long as it has the potential to be developed.

On that very point Jason, I find myself in complete agreement. I am not the least bit happy about what appears to be a completely closed ecosystem for development.What the ex-ACES team was intending for FSvNext included an on-demand, MS LIVE DLC system as well, but it was structured more like the current Apple iPhone App model, where anyone could obtain the SDK and participate. Or the current X-Box "Indie" development system, which appears now to be on the path to extinction if the cited article in another thread is indeed accurate.Nonetheless, I remain cautiously hopeful and will reserve any final judgement until such time as MS make their actual process for entree (if any) clear and unambiguous. :(

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Actually, I'm not an X-plane user. I bought X-plane 9 and tried it out, but currently do not have it installed. I think X-plane is currently an inferior product when compared to FS2004 or FSX and you can quote me on that! My whole set up here is FSX. I am very much fond of A2A simulations and their Accusim products, and also the PMDG / Level D add-ons. I've spent quite a bit of moeny on it, and being British, I'll most likely be buying the ORBX scenery for it when it comes out.However, I realise that there are a few X-plane fanatics around and that by making repeated references to X-plane I put myself at risk of being grouped with them. The reason I keep refering to X-plane is that it appears to be the only simulator with a future that allows unrestricted and open 3rd party development. It's the business model that I support, not the simulator. I have explained several times now why I have critcised Flight. Not to discredit it, but to criticise Microsoft's business model. By so doing there is a chance they will change it - if we all remain silent they won't. Apart from that, I think Flight is ok - the gold coins and flying through hoops part doesn't bother me so much, so long as it has the potential to be developed.I'm not sure what you mean Stephen. Have I really come across like that? It certainly is not my motive and I'm certainly not aware of having insulted or "kicked" anyone. If you're asking me to quit, you are and administrator here and I will of course respect your judgement.

Jason, I am not a moderator of this forum so I write just as a private member the same as you. Don't pull any punches at me for I deserve all the hits that I have coming. Thank you for your explanation though. I appreciate that sometimes we seem to say things that we really did not have in mind, at least I do.Kind regards,

[gtrbarbarian 1]

I've never tried Xplane....I got two separate copies of XPlane9 and neither of them could complete the install on either of my 2 pcs....without running into file corruption...I thought "you know, if it can't even install...what are the chances of this being a quality product"...I got a refund.

[FSMP 95]

It's "A GAME" .. It's FREE ... get it for your Kids, or for yourself, if you want an Arcade game.So, Microsoft developed an "Plane Flying" Arcade Game. Good for them.Whose to say that they should not do so ... not even their Stockholders ?It probably so INSIGNIFICANT as part of the massive MS empire ?.I really fail to understand why everyone is so upset. Its just a re-hack of FSX, and an attempt to leverage a few more bucks out of the FSX software, before it becomes so outdated, that it has no value at all.Nobody is forcing anyone to "Downgrade" to Flight ..It's FREE, and like the well know saying "You get what you pay for".

Edited January 27, 2012 by FSMP

[RYR738 9]

It's "A GAME" .. It's FREE ... get it for your Kids, or for yourself, if you want an Arcade game.So, Microsoft developed an "Plane Flying" Arcade Game. Good for them.Whose to say that they should not do so ... not even their Stockholders ?It probably so INSIGNIFICANT as part of the massive MS empire ?.I really fail to understand why everyone is so upset. Its just a re-hack of FSX, and an attempt to leverage a few more bucks out of the FSX software, before it becomes so outdated, that it has no value at all.Nobody is forcing anyone to "Downgrade" to Flight ..It's FREE, and like the well know saying "You get what you pay for".

The only thing that will be free in Flight is the main island of Hawaii and 2 very basic planes.Just like FSX, you will have to buy the rest.Fred.

[FSMP 95]

The only thing that will be free in Flight is the main island of Hawaii and 2 very basic planes.Just like FSX, you will have to buy the rest.Fred.

OMG -- Really !!!! I didn't realize that. I thought it would ALL be "FREE" !!! -- How Dissappointing :( :( :( Edited January 28, 2012 by FSMP

[RYR738 9]

I bet you can't wait to download it and see why MS has kept their little secrets for so long.AI, like never seen before and yes...ATC with voice recognition.......etc......etc................There's going to be lots of egg on faces in the coming months.I look forward to it. :(

Edited January 28, 2012 by RYR738

[Ben Cap 89]

AI, like never seen before and yes...ATC with voice recognition.......etc......etc................There's going to be lots of egg on faces in the coming months.I look forward to it. :(

:( :( B)

[JasonD210 0]

I would love egg on my face - but for that to happn Flight would have to release an SDK and allow freeware (even it it has to be approved by MS) :(