A Minority Report

[SpiritFlyer 987]

There are a number of reasons to believe that FLIGHT has serious simulation capabilities built into it that are simply turned off or wound down. I suspect if someone has the Beta and they go snooping around looking at all the usual suspects in their system they might be pleasantly surprised by what they may find. As some people have mentioned, those who have comprehensively tested the FLIGHT engine in the existing Beta's advanced challenges, there is some serious flight simulation engineering and rendering at work. The more it is evaluated, the more impressive it becomes. If anyone really thinks that FLIGHT is just a slap-dash, stuck together, haphazard, gutted FSX carryover, they could not be more mistaken.I suggest that Microsoft is expertly managing FLIGHT user group expectations, always a shrewd marketing move planned by those worth their weight in gold. There is every reason to conjecture that each step forward from this point (and I believe MS is not plodding but jogging) will exceed the expectations that have been intentionally dampened down by this Beta. What better way to clear the deck of those whose vested interests are to try to turn their customers away from this platform, but to flush them out early, and once the opposition have put both feet in their mouths, demonstrate publicly and compellingly how wrong they are. Just watch! Hey, the water is not even turned on for Pete's sake. But can it be turned on? Of course it can, for we have seen it so even in the very first pre-beta video! There are other solid indications that the controls for both AI airliners and GA traffic is present but turned off. Can they be turned on? More than likely, otherwise they would not even be there. There are a whole lot of new features and settings that we have not seen before nor understand, that have yet to demonstrate what function they direct. Please realize that what we see now in the FLIGHT Beta, is not all there is developed already, by a long shot, considering that the Beta download and installation is only a fraction of the 10g that the initial download of Flight will need. Will FLIGHT be just like FSX but better? No, I don't think so. It is something significantly different, and possibly better in important ways. Perhaps it will become whatever the user wants it to be. Maybe it will mirror the reflection of those who fly it, enticing them to purchase from a wide selection of the kind of content they want, right from kid's coin collection arcades to full scale long distance airline aircraft with IFR and FMC systems. Why not? MS has said that FLIGHT development from here on in will be entirely customer choice driven. Why not believe them? If anyone with the Beta would begin investigating and seriously evaluating what they see and experience, there are solid clues that point to the sophisticated nature underlying this software. Come one folks, let's look beneath the surface here and step out of the box we have sealed ourselves in. Something else: Many seem to think that the Microsoft Corporation is weak, stupid and incompetent. I submit that whatever they are, they are none of that. It is a lot more likely that those who underestimate Microsoft's ability and well planned intentions with this franchise are being woefully shortsighted and not putting their heads up and looking around. Think about this: Notwithstanding X-plane, MS invented, developed, and own the basis of all versions of MSFS as we now know it. Anyone who is building on top of the Microsoft Flight Simulation Franchise, regardless of the version, is simply doing just that, standing on top of the shoulders of a giant corporation who have allowed add-on developers to freely climb over them, and then. believe it or not, stand up there and shout insults in their ears. How stupid is that? Since when does the makeup become the woman, or the expressive phrase displace the language itself? They don't. MS is not a benevolent weak willed old woman who won't take the remedial action the circumstances now warrant. Just watch!None of us knows where FLIGHT is heading, but MS does, and I bet their research tells them that the market will love it. Of course, they could be wrong. Admittedly, everything I wrote here could be nothing more than fool's folly, that will make myself and others of like mind the object of justified FS community-wide ridicule. If so, then so be it, but I see a clear outline of something huge which is barely concealed beneath the surface of FLIGHT. Meanwhile I have spent a lot of money, paid my dues to this society (or whatever we are) and invested a large slice of my life in this hobby and am enjoying FSX to the fullest. But, we all know that the flight simulation hobby as it now is will wind down and be replaced by what those that follow us will consider to be far better. Are we there yet? Not quite, but perhaps very close. Don't know, but I'd rather fly forward than stall backwards.Kind regards,

Edited January 9, 2012 by SpiritFlyer

[Glynn 405]

There are a number of reasons to believe that FLIGHT has serious simulation capabilities built into it that are simply turned off or wound down. I suspect if someone has the Beta and they go snooping around looking at all the usual suspects in their system they might be pleasantly surprised by what they find present. As some people have mentioned, those who have seriously tested the FLIGHT engine in the existing Beta's advanced challenges, there is some serious flight simulation engineering and rendering at work. The more it is evaluated, the more impressive it becomes. If anyone really thinks that FLIGHT is just a slap-dash, stuck together, haphazard, gutted FSX carryover, they could not be more mistaken.I suggest that Microsoft is expertly managing FLIGHT user group expectations, always a shrewd marketing move. There is every reason to conjecture that each step forward from this point (and I believe MS is jogging) will exceed the expectations that have been dampened down by this Beta. What better way to clear the deck of have those whose vested interests are to try to turn their customers away from this platform, but to flush them out early, and once the opposition have put both feet in their mouths, demonstrate publicly and compellingly how wrong they are. Just watch! Hey, the water is not even turned on for Pete's sake. But can it be turned on? Of course it can, for we have seen it so in the pre-beta videos! There are other solid indications that the controls for both AI airliners and GA traffic is present but turned off. Can they be turned on? More than likely, otherwise they would not even be there. There are a whole lot of new features and settings that we have not seen before, that have yet to demonstrate what function they direct. Please realize that what we see now in the FLIGHT Beta, is not all there is, by a long shot, considering that the Beta download and installation is only a fraction of the 10g that the initial download of Flight will need. Will FLIGHT be just like FSX but better? No, I don't think so. It is something significantly different, and possibly better in important ways. Perhaps it will become whatever the user wants it to be. Maybe it will mirror the reflection of those who fly it, enticing them to purchase from a wide selection of the kind of content they want, right from kid's coin collection arcades to full scale long distance airline aircraft with IFR and FMC systems. Why not? MS has said that FLIGHT development from here on in will be entirely customer choice driven. Why not believe them? If anyone with the Beta would begin investigating and seriously evaluating what they see and experience, there are solid clues that point to the sophisticated nature underlying this software. Come one folks, let's look beneath the surface here and step out of the box we have sealed ourselves in. Something else: Many seem to think that the Microsoft Corporation is weak, stupid and incompetent. I submit that whatever they are, they are none of that. It is a lot more likely that those who underestimate Microsoft's ability and well planned intentions with this franchise are being woefully shortsighted and not putting their heads up and looking around. Think about this: Notwithstanding X-plane, MS invented, developed, and own the basis of all versions of MSFS as we now know it. Anyone who is building on top of the Microsoft Flight Simulation Franchise, regardless of the version, is simply doing just that, standing on top of the shoulders of a giant corporation who have allowed add-on developers to freely climb over them, and then. believe it or not, stand up there and shout insults in their ears. How stupid is that? Since when does the makeup become the woman, or the expressive phrase displace the language itself? They don't. MS is not a benevolent weak willed old woman who won't take the remedial action the circumstances now warrant. Just watch!None of us knows where FLIGHT is heading, but MS does, and I bet their research tells them that the market will love it. Of course, they could be wrong. Admittedly, everything I wrote here could be nothing more than fool's folly, that will make myself and others of like mind the object of justified FS community-wide ridicule. If so, then so be it, but I see a clear outline of something huge which is barely concealed beneath the surface of FLIGHT. Meanwhile I have spent a lot of money, paid my dues to this society (or whatever we are) and invested a large slice of my life in this hobby and am enjoying FSX to the fullest. But, we all know that the flight simulation hobby as it now is will wind down and be replaced by what those that follow us will consider to be far better. Are we there yet? Not quite, but perhaps very close. Don't know, but I'd rather fly forward than stall backwards.Kind regards,

Hello stephenHave you flown the beta yet ?

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Hello stephenHave you flown the beta yet ?

Hey, Mad Dog, glad you asked since you have nailed an important question, but I cannot answer it. Have some faith brother! :(

[xplanery 250]

Lold I still believe that all optimism regarding Flight is going to be proved false. I mean its clearly stated that Flight will not have whole world, so it can never be any kind of replacement for FSX to me at least. Why would they model serious long haul airliner if there is no place to fly with it as there will be just some small regions?I suspect that Flight is very low budget project anyways so they wont model any serious airliners also because of low fundings, and will not offer anything for those who like longer haul flights with big planes.

Edited January 9, 2012 by pvjinflight

[Attila 2]

This would sound encouraging, were it not for the following facts:1. Flight is built on the same 32-bit base code with a lot of added functionality. If we were to retain all of FSX's functions and add in what we have already seen, we'll have even less VM space for our beloved add-ons.2. While you are poking around the files of Flight and try to discern what features may still be around and turned off, some 3PDs have had full access to this information already. Two very important 3PDs have come out and said that they do not find it profitable to develop for Flight and MS has stated that there will be no publicly released SDK.This is a very major development, not only because there will be no freeware, but also because today's expert 3PDs were once just tinkering with the SDK for fun. This will no longer be possible and hence no new blood in this field.3. It has been stated by MS that their intention is not to build the whole world, but that their resources are mostly turned to developing new missions and new fun things to do. We'll get new areas to play in, for sure, just not the ones we might want. I'd rather have FSX default Africa, than no Africa at all.4. I think we can all agree that MS was never able to develop any part of the simulator to our exacting standards. We will now have a visually improved game, mostly developed by people who never saw a line of FSX code before and we are to believe that this group will do a better job than Aces did. I find that very hard to believe.

[xXArch_AngelXx 0]

Sources. Quote a reliable source, or its BS. Its a pain, but since there is a lot of speculation (as always ) Its best to state proof, otherwise it would be unwise to believe what you read/hear. I like facts :)Nice OP BTW, this is how I feel towards Flight, and I don't come here to state wild (and mostly false) things. There is a lot of 'talk' on here, wait till tomorrow to get some first ever responses from MS XD. My advice? (I know your going to troll me, and read too much into... well everything, and be nit-picky of my words) Do what I will do, wait and see. Its that simple. I'm mildly optimistic, I know the foundations are there, as that what Flight is; a base. Dont judge a product, when 1. its not completed, 2. A lot will be added over time, and as more is added, It will likely get better and better. I figure they are gradually adding elements to the game bit by bit, starting small and making their way up to the more advanced things. It makes sense, It would be unwise to jump from e.g. making a maule to then making a 747-8i, with many of its systems simulated. That would be silly. Also, If you are in the beta, I 'hear' :( that in the loading screens of the game, there are tremendous hints to further advanced systems. Dont bash me for my posts, PM me if you have issues with me/my posts :) Peace.(:

[Dogstar23 0]

I'm with you. There are two popular myths that 90% of the doom and gloom here on AVSIM is based on.First myth is that MS said MSF will not have robust simulator capabilities. Nowhere has MS said this. MS said is that it is releasing for free, a limited small portion of the program this Spring that will include Hawaii and which will be geared to casual flyers. There is nothing about this that is incompatible with also having a robust simulator later. Perhaps they want to build a user base to help get third-party developers signed up and also test the program out as they complete development of it. There is nothing inconsistent with the free release limited version and later full version having robust simulator capability. It is not as if we were expecting the release of a full blown program this Spring only to be bait and switched with a limited casual game. Frankly, I was not expecting any MSF release until at the earliest late 2012 or even 2013. This free release is a suprise and might even be viewed as a bonus. Maybe MS miscalculated and thought such an early release would be welcome by the flight sim community and would even build good will (oh how they were wrong based on reading these forums).Second myth is that MSF will not have an SDK program. All we have heard is from a couple of third-party developers that were not able to reach agreement with MS at this point and therefore not given an SDK. This tells us two things, 1) MS does not intend to give the SDK for free like with FSX but rather will license it, and and perhaps more importantly 2) there is an SDK. Yes, it will not be released for free, but that is completely different than not having one and not allowing third-party addons.Just no reason to get up in arms yet. Maybe later it will be justified, but we need more facts. If MS is smart they should provide more details on their plans for the program, in order to quiet the onslaught of negative commentary.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Dogstar23

[Fsau 0]

Good post Stephen, I agree with a lot of your points and I still hold out hope for Flight.

[rodger 0]

Good post Stephen, I agree with a lot of your points and I still hold out hope for Flight.

+1thank you

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Not minority Stephen, Minority @ Avsim! Your just not jaded :) Well expressed from one of the more sensible viewers. You know a few are going to scream bloody murder at you and use words like "trader" :)I really like this! "Something else: Many seem to think that the Microsoft Corporation is weak, stupid and incompetent. I submit that whatever they are, they are none of that"

I have been called far worse and even invited to leave and never come back, so am not too worried about the opinions of some. None of that is very inportant anyway. What is important is what do we actually see right in front of our noses.

Hey, Mad Dog, glad you asked since you have nailed an important question, but I cannot answer it. Have some faith brother! :(

I should have added: I have seen you take a second look at things before and have an open mind and carefully and respectfully consider the options. I expect you will do so now as well, even if it leads you to disagree with me, and that is only right.

Have you flown the beta yet ?One of those. "I could tell ya but then I would be obligated to kill ya" :)

LOL :(

Lold I still believe that all optimism regarding Flight is going to be proved false. I mean its clearly stated that Flight will not have whole world, so it can never be any kind of replacement for FSX to me at least.Why would they model serious long haul airliner if there is no place to fly with it as there will be just some small regions?I suspect that Flight is very low budget project anyways so they wont model any serious airliners also because of low fundings, and will not offer anything for those who like longer haul flights with big planes.

No disrespect intended, but as a self confessed X-Plane person I can't imagine you care very much one way or the other. :(

Nice OP BTW, this is how I feel towards Flight, and I don't come here to state wild (and mostly false) things. There is a lot of 'talk' on here, wait till tomorrow to get some first ever responses from MS XD.

Thank you! You are quite right, a little bit of patience is called for. Time will tell all.

I believe you do not have the vision to ask not what's ahead but, what's around the corner!

Only thinking in tactical terms instead of strategic terms loses wars.

I'm with you. There are two popular myths that 90% of the doom and gloom here on AVSIM is based on.First myth is that MS said MSF will not have robust simulator capabilities.Second myth is that MSF will not have an SDK program.

You nailed it! Twice!

Good post Stephen, I agree with a lot of your points and I still hold out hope for Flight.

There is every reason to hope, to see a glass being filled up instead of a glass that is only half full. It's not likely to be just false hope either as it is based upon pieces of FLIGHT evidence and MS testimony.

+1thank you

And thank you too! Edited January 27, 2012 by SpiritFlyer

[WotanUK 289]

It's actually not a bad VFR tool now. The missions are quite fun, i agree with OP, MS have turned things off, lets see if they switch them on (for a price) later on.

[Garys 209]

What is potentially hidden under the surface is still pointless. Fact still remains though, unless MS release a SDK for this title, flight will be akin to a Ferrari on 2 cylinders. Beautiful but useless.

[alainneedle1 97]

Clues floating around....... :vava:Some of you guys better not download Flight, you'll get lost.... :help:I know a guys who is chief of security at one of the Trump International Hotel....his sister is the one cleaning one of the office in Redmond.and...... :(

Edited January 9, 2012 by alainneedle1

[simmerhead 885]

The only thing I care about is an SDK. Since FS98 I have been able to fly from my local airport, in my country, and 100s of other remote areas of the world. Without freeware flight sim is dead to me and I might as well go free flying in Rise of Flight which has superiour graphics. The ability to fly almost anywhere was the one thing MSFS did better than any other sim in history. MSFS had something for everyone, rich or poor, gamer or simmer, virtual traveler or pilot, designer or coder. A uniqe hoppy with multiple ways to enjoy it. With FLIGHT all that is gone.

[Artem Crum 5]

SpiritFlyer,Same thoughts here. Looks like MS trying to acheive the same goal as Apple did with it's iOS platform. There was NO SDK too for the first year of platform existance, but now it's the biggest mobile app market with the best develpment tools, best code quality and the biggest profit for developers.If MS will be able to repeat this with FS market that will be great! But they have to broke some walls for that... they have to stand over all expectations from those who doesn't want to change their point of view on subject.Hope they will succeed with that, because current FS world, market and community structure is far outdated. Someone have to clean all this mess up and set a new order. Chances MS will really do it are small... but why not?