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martin-w

JS41 - Come on PMDG we expect better!

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Okay, had the JS41 a few days now, just done further testing.And all I can say is...Come on PMDG, play the game!On the runway at EGBB I saw 10 frames per second less than the NGX.I also have white flickering lines all around the PFD, GPWS switch and adjacent switches.I also got the texture coruption others have talked about. Huge triangles appearing.And not a single word from PMDG in regard to the service pack talked about so long ago.Sorry, but I'm quite disgusted and feel the product isn't worth the money I paid.No where near polished enough for a product that was released so long ago.I don't wish to upset anyone, but that's how i feel.

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I think they canned the SP for the J41. And as for the texture/white lines/triange things, if you read one of the first few pages of the tutorial it explains how to resolve that.I know everyone has their opinion, but it is a light version of what they normally do? Think on how the NGX (600-900) is around $100+ and the J41 is only $45...

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You mean the minimum resolution of 1280x1024 to avoid artifacts?It's in the introduction, not the tutorial.Yes, tried it, it was the first thing I tried. Didn't help.Doesn't matter if it's a "light" version, it should still have remaining issues resolved by a service pack.If it's true that the service pack has been canceled after being promised, I will ask for a refund.

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So did you try running the "medium" VC. Apparently that is the fix. I spent 5 minutes searching that for you.Before you say that's unacceptable, that's the best you're going to get for now. If the lack of ice in the VC is a deal breaker, perhaps you should fly something else. Otherwise I agree, this issue should be addressed. I do however understand the nature of this sort of software, so realize it's hard to address an issue if the developer never experiences it.

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I also would expect some common courtesy on this, it's not like it hasn't been read by every PMDG employee. I would say though before creating all these new threads about it, it's better to keep it to one. You wouldn't hand in a petition one page at a time, would you? Not just that, but when you have many threads it will blow someones gasket and the only thing that ever comes of it is all of gets deleted, so in essence, more threads on the same topic goes against us, like peeing in the fan... Speaking of which.

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...I don't wish to upset anyone, but that's how i feel.
No, seriously, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel...

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I've been flying her for a few weeks now, and loving every bit of it. I think she's a wonderful little bird, and worth every cent.

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I think she's worth every cent also. Not sure that has to do with what's being talked about. At least not with me it certainly isn't.

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So did you try running the "medium" VC. Apparently that is the fix. I spent 5 minutes searching that for you.Before you say that's unacceptable, that's the best you're going to get for now. If the lack of ice in the VC is a deal breaker, perhaps you should fly something else. Otherwise I agree, this issue should be addressed. I do however understand the nature of this sort of software, so realize it's hard to address an issue if the developer never experiences it.
Zach... thanks very much for your 5 minutes work.Yes, i am using the medium setting.Still the same issues in regard to the panel. As for mount Everest appearing through the cockpit window, it's a random occurrence each flight, I would have to test on a longer flight to check. that's the best you're going to get for nowThats the point though Zach, it's not the best for now, it's the best for all time if there will be no SP2.Hence we will be stuck with these issues, including the horrendously loud sound.

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I also would expect some common courtesy on this, it's not like it hasn't been read by every PMDG employee. I would say though before creating all these new threads about it, it's better to keep it to one. You wouldn't hand in a petition one page at a time, would you? Not just that, but when you have many threads it will blow someones gasket and the only thing that ever comes of it is all of gets deleted, so in essence, more threads on the same topic goes against us, like peeing in the fan... Speaking of which.
True dan, as a moderator on another forum for many years I would agree.However, if a single topic is ignored by the developer, it encourages multiple topics to be created. When customers are ignored, they ask for a reply again, and again, and again. Customers gaskets get blown too, when they are repeatedly ignored.

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...Sorry, but I'm quite disgusted and feel the product isn't worth the money I paid....
You have me wondering just what it is you were expecting for $44.95. All I can say is I would hate to be the waiter at any restaurant you chose to dine in. I can just imagine the conversation..."Waiter! This big mac does not contain the 14oz filet of Kobe beef and half dozen Galway oysters I was expecting, and this milkshake tastes nothing like a Château Pétrus 1961! I demand a refund!"P.S. go back and read the order form. No refunds.

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Hence we will be stuck with these issues, including the horrendously loud sound. The garrett engines are known for being extremely loud I flew in a metroliner for a couple years which also had garrett engines, we had to wear earplugs under our headsets because of the engine noise.

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You have me wondering just what it is you were expecting for $44.95. All I can say is I would hate to be the waiter at any restaurant you chose to dine in. I can just imagine the conversation..."Waiter! This big mac does not contain the 14oz filet of Kobe beef and half dozen Galway oysters I was expecting, and this milkshake tastes nothing like a Château Pétrus 1961! I demand a refund!"P.S. go back and read the order form. No refunds.
What I was expecting was a product that didn't have known issues with the VC, that forced users to use a high resolution, and thus suffer a reduction in performance.Which is of course a requiremnt that we don't learn about untill after the product is purchased. [Not that a higher resolution works for me, it doesn't]What I was expecting, was the absence of huge graphical anomolies appearing through the cockpit window.What I was expecting was properly balanced sound, or thereabouts.The cost of the product is irrelevant.You can expect limited features with a cheaper product, that's fine, understandable and perfectly acceptable, but not obvious and annoying graphical anomolies.
Hence we will be stuck with these issues, including the horrendously loud sound.The garrett engines are known for being extremely loud I flew in a metroliner for a couple years which also had garrett engines, we had to wear earplugs under our headsets because of the engine noise.
As stated previously in this thread...I am aware of that. But the pilots in the cockpit wear hearing protection, I don't. And I don't expect to have to wear ear plugs sitting in front of a PC monitor, and the rest of my family certainly wouldn't appreciate the din.

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What I was expecting was a product that didn't have known issues with the VC, that forced users to use a high resolution, and thus suffer a reduction in performance.Which is of course a requiremnt that we don't learn about untill after the product is purchased. [Not that a higher resolution works for me, it doesn't]What I was expecting, was the absence of huge graphical anomolies appearing through the cockpit window.What I was expecting was properly balanced sound, or thereabouts.The cost of the product is irrelevant.You can expect limited features with a cheaper product, that's fine, understandable and perfectly acceptable, but not obvious and annoying graphical anomolies.As stated previously in this thread...I am aware of that. But the pilots in the cockpit wear hearing protection, I don't. And I don't expect to have to wear ear plugs sitting in front of a PC monitor, and the rest of my family certainly wouldn't appreciate the din.
I'm sure that you've considered they didn't "balance" the sounds for you specifically. They were created to offer a realistic sound suite. Either way, I surely hope you've also considered turning the engine volume down in FSX. :Doh:I've also given you the fix as it is now for the VC. You'll be missing icing effects... That's it. I understand what it's like to be irritated with a product, but your thread is mostly coming across (respectfully) as unrealistic and trollish. First it was the VC. Now it's the fact that the aircraft is too loud and your family doesn't appreciate it? Let's get a grip.You've been given the fix. You've been given a workaround for the sound. (lower the volume...) Let's move on. In the mean time, open a support ticket if you're miffed.

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What I was expecting was a product that didn't have known issues with the VC, that forced users to use a high resolution, and thus suffer a reduction in performance.Which is of course a requiremnt that we don't learn about untill after the product is purchased. ...
Now that is just trolling!You have almost 500 posts on Avsim over the last 6 years. Are you honestly trying to tell us that you think it is somehow PMDG's fault that in all that time you were too lazy to bother reading their forums before you bought their products?Your argument might have had some credence if you were talking about software that had been released in the last few hours or days, before people had time to find the more subtle aspects of the product, but you can't use that excuse when the software has been on sale and been openly talked about in this and other forums for almost two and a half years!

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Mr. Wilby,I think the J-41 is one of PMDG's best models, including the NGX. The J-41 flies very well and the systems seem to be well represented (not rated in a J-41). I am running it on a 6 year old, 32-bit PC with a 3 year old GTS video card. All I've done is follow Ryan's advice on setting up my Nvidia card.PMDG has done an excellent job in presenting a small, regional turboprop. The J-41 gets my greatest complement - "it's fun to fly".Bill Bridges

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I think people jump far to fast to demolish others in forum like this one. You have the 'Yes Team' always standing by to defend their beloved master and the slightest post stating any pertinent information gets quickly attacked but what the others see as an attack themselve.People always get me wrong. They can't tell if I'm against PMDG (or any developer) or part of this "Yes Team". Neither. If someone with 1 post brings up a valid point, then I back that point. I can care less how that makes me look to the yes team or the actual developer, and it shouldn't be what's being consider either,,, ever! If someone comes attacking something they don't understand, then I would be seen on the other side of that fence, but also in explaining. The other problem is people on most boards live by the "Do as I say, not as I do" mentality. Be that way all you want, but you are 100% wrong in being that way. Everyone is human and often you need to take a post that cannot later be edited at what it could be, and that's a post brought on by frustration. People don't though, and they won't because it takes away their chance to be idiots and yell and scream at them making them look like some sort of hero, it's pathetic.@ Paul, I would say a good 8 0, % of your postsreplies to people that I read fit well into the above last part of what I said. Meaning, you often attack what people say but are (hopefully) just also speaking from the hip without much thought of what you're saying. If someone doesn't like a post or topic then why the hell MUST they say so all the time. If there's something beneficial to add, then sure, but like my mother use to say "If you nothing good to say, don't say anything at all". It's something I often have to remind myself of too.Such as jokingly, I was going to just reply to Bill asking for a link to this so called J-31 that I never knew PMDG had. I was only going to because I know if I didn't do so lightly, that some reject would soon be by to blast him for just getting it wrong. To say you don't see that point is either a flat out lie, or you all have your princaples totally screwed up.

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Dan,Thanks for catching my typo. :smile:Bill Bridges

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I'm sure that you've considered they didn't "balance" the sounds for you specifically. They were created to offer a realistic sound suite. Either way, I surely hope you've also considered turning the engine volume down in FSX. :Doh:I've also given you the fix as it is now for the VC. You'll be missing icing effects... That's it. I understand what it's like to be irritated with a product, but your thread is mostly coming across (respectfully) as unrealistic and trollish. First it was the VC. Now it's the fact that the aircraft is too loud and your family doesn't appreciate it? Let's get a grip.You've been given the fix. You've been given a workaround for the sound. (lower the volume...) Let's move on. In the mean time, open a support ticket if you're miffed.
I'm sure that you've considered they didn't "balance" the sounds for you specifically. They were created to offer a realistic sound suite. Either way, I surely hope you've also considered turning the engine volume down in FSX.From what I have read, many have complained about the sound, so no, not just "not balanced for me", it's not balanced for many. Realism for the sake of it is often a negative.As for turning down the FSX sound, Zach, I'm 54, been doing this a while, of course I can turn down the sound from within FSX, it's precisely what I have done... but I don't have to do that with any product I own. Hence, you would think the developer would have balanced the sound better. It's not just loud, it's very loud.I've also given you the fix as it is now for the VC. You'll be missing icing effects... That's it. You didn't give me anything Zach, I found the fix myself, although still to test if it was effective. But the point, is should we have to sacrifice features the product was advertised to have, to fix the anomaly? Or should the developer patch the issue, and provide the product advertised?The point, is that nowhere on the PMDG site, does it tell anyone, "before purchase", that the advertised icing effects are not available for many/some customers if you want to avoid graphical anomalies. And no where on the PMDG web site does it tell customers, before purchase, that the product only works with high resolutions, or you get VC graphical issues.I'm a "troll" you say, well after many years as a moderator, and untold posts on forums, thats the first time I've been told that.So thanks for the feedback.I'm an individual who will gladly tell you what I think, a true reflection of my opinion. The PMDG 737 NGX is without doubt the greatest add-on ever released. And that's coming from someone that's been at this game since Clive Sinclair's machines. Probably before you were born Zach.However, I say the JS41 is an unfinished product and I am disappointed.That's my opinion, the opinion of someone double the age of some of my detractors in this thread, take it or leave it. Call me a "troll" if you like. But I reserve the right to have a different opinion to you guys,as much as you may hate that.I won't respond anymore in this thread, I wouldn't want a troll to polute your forum.

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I'm sure that you've considered they didn't "balance" the sounds for you specifically. They were created to offer a realistic sound suite. Either way, I surely hope you've also considered turning the engine volume down in FSX.
The engine noise is very loud, far to loud; while you can turn the volume down within FSX, this then affects every other add-on, you can't really hear the engine noise from the NGX at acceptable levels for the J41. This is a fault and should be fixed.
I've also given you the fix as it is now for the VC. You'll be missing icing effects... That's it.
If you read the PMDG general forum it's made very clear that the texture fault is a fault with the FSX engine a hard limit that PMDG could not fix. You have a workaround, i am afraid that this is as good as it's going to get. Personally i think that this is acceptable.
The point, is that nowhere on the PMDG site, does it tell anyone, "before purchase", that the advertised icing effects are not available for many/some customers if you want to avoid graphical anomalies. And no where on the PMDG web site does it tell customers, before purchase, that the product only works with high resolutions, or you get VC graphical issues.
Would you advertise issues with FSX engine, where would that stop, you would also have to say that ATC doesn't support STAR's / SID's etc... I do completely understand your point, but feel that in this instance it's a little unfair to blame PMDG.
However, I say the JS41 is an unfinished product and I am disappointed.
Yes it could do with some extra work, the sounds are my particular bug bear.It's a shame that you feel you shouldn't post, i agree that some of the avsim forums are getting way to similar too 4chan, people manage to be both patronising and occasionally hostile.

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I like the JS41.I don't get artefacts. It is heavier on frames than some, but for the amount of work and detail in it .. It is quite acceptable.I think the OP could possibly be said to be ranting, rather than trolling ... A point which is quite distinct.He has some valid opinions, but not all agree. Perhaps this thread serves to show us that?Whether or not peoples' expectations are reasonable is always open to interpretation.Personally, I think it hard to reasonably ask for your money back because the product is not to your liking.It is what it is, and pretty damn good at that.

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I said I wouldn't post, but as a few more polite and sensible individuals have arrived I will.I will also post for another reason...I speak my mind, if I think a product is good i will say so, if I think a product is bad i will say so. I will also say so if I have misjudged.Well I have... to a degree.I have now set all options in the configuration manager to the minimum. Lowest setting for panel and low version for both external and VC. The result is much better frame rate. And in addition, a weird bug in regard to the engine instruments, that pretty much blanked out one of the readouts is now fixed. The low setting doesn't seem to have affected quality much at all.However... I still have the bloody annoying flickering panel, and of course the super loud sound.The sound, I figure I "may" be able to fix myself, and with a new monitor shortly on the way with a higher native res, and with the FPS latitude now available it may be more to my liking.So while not exactly to my expectations, i have improved the frame rate considerably and am hopefull for an acceptable outcome.You may call me a "troll" but this troll is an honest troll and capable of injecting some positivity when warranted.I wonder who the trolls really are?

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As the one who accused you of trolling, I think a little clarification is in order. I agree with hcornea that your original post was over the top and probably bordering on rant but it was not trolling as such. However, when you later claimed that you could not learn about the products requirements, strengths and limitations before purchase, well... that was pushing it a bit.

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I only get the artifacts if i reload the aircraft without shutting down FSX first and reloading the sim. I have never had them during the first flight. The sound is bad...very bad, i wish there was an easy way to fix that. Performance is actually pretty good, not as good as the NGX but OK. I understand that PMDG cannot keep putting patches out, but i would be a VERY happy loyal customer if they fixed the sound issue!!! :(

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