Don't be daft. Obviously certain procedures, a/c, and or operations merit the use of automated flight systems. I identify two key ideas in my post: reliance and unnecessary use. Tell me, in your opinion, how would someone who only knows how to fly an a/c via its A/P will handle a situation in which manual control, situational assessment, and critical analysis of a rapidly deteriorating situation will fair? As pilots, we are taught to always be trustful but very critical of our instrumentation. Instruments and systems do fail (recall NZ60 in Apia). The point I'm trying to make is that, as long as one can safely and proficiently operate an aircraft in all conditions of flight and in all anticipated situations, then by all means use the tools you have at your disposal. But always anticipate that those tools may fail you.

That's really not what you stated in previous post ( I agree with this one).You said:

No one who relies on flight management systems and or computers to fly an aircraft for them is a true pilot in my eyes.

I just do no like the way you disrespect tens of thousand airline pilots in this world. They are pilots as much as GA pilots are.

I just do no like the way you disrespect tens of thousand airline pilots in this world. They are pilots as much as GA pilots are.

Let me clarify since by no means did I intend any disrespect towards anyone. Reliance is the notion I am completely against. Although thousands of pilots utilize the tools at their disposal, they are by no means completely reliant on them. Throughout our training, we are incrementally engaged in acquiring skills specifically tuned towards avoiding such reliance.Also, let's not forget that all airline pilots were GA pilots at some point .

Edited March 6, 201214 yr by N6330V

I'm a commercial pilot... I do not use an autopilot... I prefer to hand fly GA aircraft whether or not it has an autopilot. I think Geof said he prefers not to use an autopilot in the Baron. You think Geof and myself are the only two licensed pilots in the world that feel this way? C'mon... and you ask me what planet I am from?

So, Ozzie, how many 200+ nm trips do you make over water when you fly your GA aircraft?

I'm a commercial pilot... I do not use an autopilot... I prefer to hand fly GA aircraft whether or not it has an autopilot. I think Geof said he prefers not to use an autopilot in the Baron. You think Geof and myself are the only two licensed pilots in the world that feel this way? C'mon... and you ask me what planet I am from?

Truth is.....................Because in a lot of cases, the A/Ps installed on these older aircraft are now a pile of junk! They're old, outdated, and fail much of the time. It's just easier to leave them off.In our "experimental" aircraft world, auto-pilots are high tech solid state devices, that we go to the trouble of installing. The pricing is also much better than what's availablefor certified aircraft, let alone the installation cost. In the case of RVs, since they don't fly like sedate school buses, the auto-pilot is a real advantage when flying long cross country flights. It no longer has to be the old day's, in which the pilot flys and navigates, while the passengers view all the scenery below. The A/P frees us to scan more for birds, traffic, emergency landing areas..............and just getting a better look around. There is nothing that fun, about flying hundreds of miles by hand, when you don't have to. I've seen numerous storys about "old" pilots who get a plane ride on their 90th or so birthday. There will always be comments such as "wow....I didn't know those mountain, lakes, and valleys were so beautiful. I was always flying, and didn't get to pay much attention to them". As to RV's and IFR, the auto-pilot is almost essential, as it will easily roll off to the side, as you check your chart or bump the stick. For these planes, the A/P is highly recommended, and usually installed.I've actually enjoyed, programming the moving map GPS and watching the A/P follow the course. I built the plane, installed the auto-pilot, made all the connections for wiring and mechanical connections. It's great to see, when it all works as expected. With much of todays glass panels, out there, it's a whole new world to learn. Especially if you install them yourself.L.Adamson

I used to get flown to work (about 200km) in a 1960's vintage Baron, and most of the pilots didn't use the ap for the reasons you say - they were old and unreliable. The Baron is a bit of a bus, whereas I guess the Vans is more of a sports car. I agree that we should hand fly sims more than we do (after 6 months of mostly ngx-ing i confess my ga sim skills were a bit rusty). I'd also like my maule and vans to have a functioning autopilot for when i just want to sit back and enjoy the cruise.

So, Ozzie, how many 200+ nm trips do you make over water when you fly your GA aircraft?

I don't know what water has to do with anything... the types I flew trimmed out well enough you fly hands off... especially VFR enroute.In fact I was taught (for planes that allow it... seems the RVs aren't one) you don't sit there and "drive" a plane... enroute it's "hands-off". Get the power set for the altitude you are flying, Trim and put those hands in your lap. A little turbulence bumps you... then raise that wing back up (make the correction) and hand back to the lap.Instructing and "over water" means you have to be within gliding distance of land (unless you have life-vests and no plane I ever flew did). In the Midwest, not a whole lot of water to worry about unless you want to fly across the Great Lakes. Once you are 100+nm out from shore you need the whole smash... liferaft / vest / "survival kit" / flares / portable ELT... Tho possible... very unlikely any pilot here has that kind of equipment. If it's not required who is going to buy it - reducing useful load etc.? Great Lakes flights not for hire you will be inside the 100nm... even something like Nantucket to Nova Scotia still inside the limit with Maine to the north.Truth is... I have heard what Larry said... but I didn't really care to find out. I was more than content flying a Warrior or C172 or Saratoga or Aztec or Seminole or etc... hundreds of miles without an autopilot. I was flying and that made me happy... I did not need an autopilot to complete my happiness. Not only that... no way would I have used on an IFR approach. Too much fun for one. Kept my FAA currency for IFR approaches. Kept my personal currency standards. I bet Geof same or similar reasons. He's already stated why he doesn't use one.A sim autopilot allows me to fly a STAR with one eye and post to a thread with the other... or walk away (like Ray said) to make coffee or in my case visit the pilot lounge. I've had the bug to build my own plane since working in Purdue Hangar 1 where maintenance students (such as myself) were assembling a Glasair III and a Van's RV (I think it was a 6 btw). After listening to Larry, I am sure I would install something like an S-Tec. Larry quite an accomplishment to build your own and fly it... Larry is living the dream.As a side note: I was kind of surprised to see vortex generators on the RV... but sure enough they are offered by Stolspeed.

I need some help.I can get to the map by pressing M, but I can't find any "legend" to click on. Where is the legend?I'd like to be able to use the radios but can't find any way to set the frequency. (I get a hand, but can't change anything)I can swap frequencies, but can't set the frequencies I need to use a ILS or VOR.Any help would be appreciated.That assumption is incorrect. If you press "M" to open the Map, then click on Legend, it will open a panel on the right side of the screen. Place a check mark in the "Radio Navigation" box to enable the map's display.All navaids will now be displayed on the Map. Hover the mouse over the map's icons to see the frequency. Note that at this time only the Vans RV-6 and the Maule have working nav radios and VOR heads.

Open the map, click on the plane (Free flight) and then you will see Legend. Enable Radio Navigation and close the window (or click on something else in the menu at the top left).To set a frequency, hold the mouse over a knob and use the mouse wheel or click and hold and drag left - right.

Edited March 6, 201214 yr by J van E

In the Map, click on Free Flight, then Legend.

One thing re this autopilot. How many times does one get into a GA airplane and see the placard inop over something? 100% reliability doesn't happen in the rw-consider this situation just more of reality in the sim-wait until the autopilot gets out of the shop. A friend of mine's 430 screen fried-he had inop on that for 4 months until it got back from the shop. I haven't seen this modelled in a sim really yet-perhaps see it as a new innovation in simming modelling what happens rw! :Just Kidding:

I don't know what water has to do with anything... the types I flew trimmed out well enough you fly hands off... especially VFR enroute.

Thanks for the detailed reply. You obviously enjoy flying by hand. So do I, but I mentioned the water, because the very first job I did with the Maule was a long flight - over water. Nothing to see really, or worry about and the autopilot would have been useful.

Imagine that! Flying an ILS yourself instead of with Otto Pilot. Don't worry, flying ILS without Otto's help is good for you.

Last year, I took a three hour flight to northern Montana from Utah in the RV6. Much of the flight is over the rugged Sawtooth mountain range of northern Idaho. In this pic, I'm above a cloud layer for over 200 miles, but there are a lot of breaks in the clouds, where you can see the mountains below. I'm using oxygen, and the auto-pilot is following a course I had preset at home in the GPS. I do a very complete flight plan for these types of flight.With the auto-pilot following the prescribed course within a few feet, and the altitude autopilot maintaining perfect altitude within +/- 10'..........I have the time to concentrate on comparing the charts to what I see below, the ability to monitor weather at the destination several hundred miles ahead, as well as comparing estimated fuel consumption to actual. With my large moving map (and XM weather) showing the terrain below, I have more time to scan out the aircraft for other planes, as well as seeing what's far into the distance ahead and on both sides. I am free from looking at the horizon..........to maintain that +/- 100', which can get boring hour after hour. Over these years, with the A/P's....................I have become much more aware of what's around me, instead of just concentrating on hand flying.RV's are a blast to hand fly. They truely are like mini-fighters. I even read about someone who prefers to fly one over his Spitfire........for the warbird type thrill. There is plenty of time to hand fly these machines. Just not hour after hour...............when the panaramic ground views are as spectacular, as they are around here. I'm close to the Grand Canyon in one direction, and close to Yellowstone in the other..

Imagine that! Flying an ILS yourself instead of with Otto Pilot. Don't worry, flying ILS without Otto's help is good for you.

Once again, in the world of experimentals............we have lots of builder pilots, who have flown the ILS by hand, as well as automated for many years intheir day job. Now, they go to the trouble of spending many years to build a fun airplane. Glass panels and sophisticated auto-pilots are the "in" thing for thesetypes of aircrafts, as well as synthetic vision. The prices are far below, what's paid to have something comparible installed in a certified GA airplane. Note: S-tec is old fashioned.A lot of the fun, is actually setting up all of this equipment to work as it should, and let the auto-pilot fly the course as well as the ILS with precision. Yes, it's different, but certainlynot lazy. We've gone to all the trouble and years of making it possible. It's just a different twist to aviation, that can make it exciting again. BTW--- After being around this equipment for years.........it's also quite dependable!L.Adamson

After flying ONLY the Katana 4x for over 7 months (only flew the PMDG 737NGX for a while during that period) I am totally of drugs... er... AP now. :wink:I used to fly mainly with the AP in the past. Going straight from A to B. I must have been braindead at the time. When I bought the RV7 (Bay Tower, the best there is!) last december, I looked at the AP and thought "Yes, yes, yes, finally an AP again!" But after having used it for a minute or two, I turned if off... What's the fun in flying if you aren't actually flying yourself?!? I just sat there looking outside the window... No need for trimming, checking your heading, checking the altitude... And the plane just moved forward perfectly... Boring as hell!Since my usual GA-flights take no longer some 30, I couldn't care less about an AP...BTW In the PMDG 737NGX I refuse to fly without the AP... wink: But flying the 737 is a TOTALLY different game for me! GA is about soaring through the sky and enjoying the scenery: the 737 is about setting up and monitoring systems and making sure you push the right buttons. Both are utter fun but incomparable imho.