Putting Flight on your computer will not somehow spirit FS9/FSX away. Of course there are things I wish for Flight but in the meantime I am enjoying it along with the other sims depending on my mood Posted Image

Bravo. well said.Also, I think Simsamurai above: with respect, you are somewhat mising the point. MS have said that there is a simulator underneath Flight. If you look at the fidelity with which they have reproduced simple GA flying (I am also a student pilot) you would probably agree...Flying is also not all about ATC (who _really_ likes ATC in RL?)or being able to go anywhere in the world..Jeez, even when I'm fully qualified, I'd still probably fly within 200NM of my home (what with proposed EASA regs that will be a reality as well soon )This doesn't mean that I don't want to see more areas in flight, of course I do; but I'd like to see them well done. Like FTX and FSDreamTeam do them..If MS devoted their team to solely creating the entire world, we would get a barren, lifeless whole world, with no emphasis on quality (some would argue this is already the case with Flight but I disagree)Most 3pd focus on a tiny area of FSX' appeal (small geographic areas/small GA planes/Heavies), as the base product already provides them with the "rest". If ORBX were to devote all of their time to doing the whole world in one go, not only would it be c**p, but we'd be waiting for about two years before it came out..I don't see many ppl dissing ORBX for their "slowness" in responding the masses baying for the whole world to be modelled..Again, be careful what you wish for..FSX took SIX YEARS to get where it is..Calm down already!bestjake

I love ATC services. It is reassuring to know that a living breathing human being who know where I am and what I'm up to is one button click away. I have always gotten following when going beyond the immediate area. You barely have to speak to team to get service as it's very efficient! I had lots of fun working with the Stewart field controller a couple of weeks ago as I came in to land.ATC service has so much structure that it is possible to realistically model it, though I am not aware of any that do VFR well. The default FSX one isn't bad, but it wasn't great either.

Quite funny interview :) Mr. Joshua Howard is very self confident. Unfortunately for him, WE the hard core simmers create this community from the very beginning. In my opinion there are a lot more PMDG 737 NGX pilots than the new generation of these FLIGHT-connected. Typical "money-thinking" Mr. Joshua, the one of Yours. The True is, we give our heart just for flying, and You're giving aerocaches for money. Free Flight conception, or We can say- misconception? I would rather buy next PMDG plane, Carenado Cessna or Piper, CAPTAIN SIM jet or bomber driver than a DLC for flight. A money-machine that You propose is not the goal. I paid my cash for boxed professional game or professional addons. And now? Compare the Maul or P-51 with the 3rd party developers I mentioned above. We can buy ORBX or other FS Global in the price of Your addons. This is the true thing. I have respect for MS Flight and the new - discover the soul of flying conception - but I do not the one of Yours. This is not our money we spent that build up a world of flight simulator - that is our hearts. And they're not for sale. Amen.

Let me start by saying that the interview questions were very good and the answers as bad as expected, both in content and delivery. It is now clear to many more people, as it has been to many already, where Flight is going.Also...The posts in this forum are so skewed to one side by a vocal and highly protected subset of people, that these people are starting to think that they represent the majority of flight simulation enthusiasts and the so called hard core simmer is a minority that should just go by the way of the dodo.This is entirely the fault of this forum, which encourages this sort of thinking by its selective pruning of posts. The people who are allowed to post here ad-nauseum about the virtues of Flight are braver and braver at bashing the hard-core simmers and revel in the fact that they are happy with a product that barely represents half of the first rung of what might be considered an aviation ladder.Even in the supporter group, there are a sizable number of people who are unsatisfied with Flight for one reason or another. The interview makes it clear that most of these concerns will not be addressed, certainly not in a timely manner.While many people in this forum are waiting for Alaska to be released, I cannot help but wonder how 19 knot winds and the preset weather themes will be different there. Sure it will look different, but one sloped dirt runway between trees looks much the same in Alaska as it does in Hawaii. It will still not have TrackIR, real weather nor any sort of AI. It will be interesting to see what weight is put on the simulation of the effects of icing and snow on an aircraft in this package.I also wonder where MS is getting the idea that people want a leaderboard and such things. Avsim is the only forum where Flight is actively discussed and this place has not turned into a flood of newly minted Flight users - as predicted by some people.As low as people have now set their expectations for Flight, it is hard to imagine what is the depth and breadth that is talked about.

In a nutshell1. Joshua Howard does NOT want to allow 3rd party developers to make any money out of FLIGHT - if 3rd party developers go bankrupt in the years to come waiting for FLIGHT to allow for an SDK , that is OK with him. 2. Joshua Howard does NOT care what Flight Simmers want, he is not a Flight Simmer but a game developer3. Joshua Howard created a game for people who don´t need a TRACKIR, he has no intention of spending money to allow TRACKIR to make money, because this is a GAME designed to make MS money4. FLIGHT is a game, Joshua Howard probably would like to see MS FLIGHT SIM X crowd understand that5. Joshua Howard has no time to make FLIGHT appeal to Flight Simmers, FLIGHT is a game6. Joshua Howard likes the word ecosystem ... :-D

The posts in this forum are so skewed to one side by a vocal and highly protected subset of people, that these people are starting to think that they represent the majority of flight simulation enthusiasts and the so called hard core simmer is a minority that should just go by the way of the dodo.This is entirely the fault of this forum, which encourages this sort of thinking by its selective pruning of posts. The people who are allowed to posts here ad-nauseum about the virtues of Flight are braver and braver at bashing the hard-core simmers and revel in the fact that they are happy with a product that barely represents half of the first rung of what might be considered an aviation ladder.

What a load of poppycock. If you actually took the time to read a few of these "highly protected subset of people" postings, most of them are also recognising the shortcomings of Flight, and they too are asking MS to fix what is clearly broken.They do it in a voice that is not shouting and constantly negative..If this is bad then I am a devil.Also, I take issue with the statement that these people, by "allowing" Flight onto their hard drives (imagine the scandal!) are somehow bashing the "hard-core" simmers.I AM A HARDCORE SIMMER.I spend _hours_ flying all over in FSX and have done FOR YEARS. I fly real aircraft, too. I am not a weekend "gamer".I am not bashing anyone. I say, and say again: if you don't like Flight, don't use it! It's that simple! It seems to me that, on the contrary, most of the bashing around here is coming from ppl bashing MS and "non-hardcore simmers" for not being rude or dismissive enough of MS and Flight..what a load of bulldust..bestjake

I am not bashing anyone. I say, and say again: if you don't like Flight, don't use it! It's that simple!

This is bashing. You have no right to say this. You have no right to try and push me out of this forum, just because you do not like to hear what I have to say. By what measure do you think that you have more rights here?How is the TrackIR concern more right than say real-time weather or AI or ATC or twin engine planes or - wait for it - jets?It is an arrogant position to think that you can make decisions for others and the arrogance level of some posters in the guise of righteousness is way off the scale.So, please refrain from trying to impose your will on me. I am as much a Flight user as many others, dissatisfied for the most part, but with all the rights that a customer has.

I have to disagree... The so called "hard core" simmer (whatever that may be) made themselves completely and overwhelmingly irrelevant when their overriding response to Flight was a whining, carping and bleating tirade of negativity with minimal constructive dialogue attempted. Ya gets what ya sow...

We will have to agree to disagree then.Do you honestly think ANY dialogue, constructive or otherwise, would have made ANY difference to the outcome of this 'game title'? The answer is no as you can plainly see from Mr Howards answers. He is more interested in leaderboards and highscores than anything else.Flight is ok for what it is. It will never satisfy my requirements (and I say this as mainly a GA flyer, not heavy iron). Unless you can control the weather properly, have the ability to add in custom items (RXP GPS units for instance) etc, then it really is nothing more than a mission based game. That may change in the next few years, but I dont have a crystal ball handy.Too bad the lighting engine and the other improvements cant be ported over to FSX. Maybe P3D v2 will be able to accomplish that task.In fact, maybe MS have intentionally pushed this community towards P3D on purpose? Dont be surprised if LM decide a lower priced 'prosumer' tier makes sense now.....

This is bashing. You have no right to say this. You have no right to try and push me out of this forum, just because you do not like to hear what I have to say. By what measure do you think that you have more rights here?

erm..Not sure how to respond to this. Please show me one post where I "bash" any FSX/hardcore simmers and/or try to push them out of the forum! And, as you rightly point out, it is wrong to make decions for others..isn't that just what you are trying to propose you do with Flight and the people that like it?I cannot push anyone out of any forum. Nor would I want to..for what it's worth, i think the forums in here are slightly over-moderated, but look what hapens when they aren't!Also, you rightly state your "customers rights" They extend to you not buying or using the product, which, if you re-read my post is exacrtly what I say you should do! If you don't like it, don't use it!! There is really no point coming onto a forum about Flight and just moaning out of hand, as nobody on here can fix your woes; only MS can do that: [email protected] is your best bet. I am emailing them quite a lot.Please also show me one post I have made where I put any improvements to Flight over any others!You have clearly demonstrated what I said above; that you are cherry-picking posts that don't totally validate your point of view and using that to moan at othr users who do like Flight, as is their right in this free (but limited to a small area around Hawaii) world!Methinks a few "hardcore" simmers have something of a persecution complex. I suggest you all take a deep breath and stop seeing anyone who disagrees with your view as an "enemy" of "real" simming..I am not the droid you are looking for...bestjake

We are not opposed to MS Flight. I love the concept and enjoyed flying the Stearman. But we are just told in the article by Mr. Joshua: F$#% You all hard-core simmers just because You're what You are and what I want is Your money first of all". If "enough is too little; too much is enough", MS Flight is too little of the little. And it should be made for android as it is quite the same as FA-18 carrier landing :P

Our only hope is that gameplayers will be tired and slowly abandon the game after some months, maybe one year (as in the normal videogames lifecicle).After this, the simmers market, generating revenue after many years from the "birth" of FSX, will become an interesting target again.Maybe we need wait two or more years before see an opening to other developers, and maybe at that time, and for me only at that time, MS Flight could become again interesting and worth of a second try.

MS will abandon the game if that happens. They already done the "real simulator" and wasn't happy with the result/revenue, so what leads you to think they will try again? It's back to tweaking the ol FSX trying to get it to work on incompatible hardware again. *sigh*I really, really had my hopes up there for a while.

Sometimes I wonder whether I read the same interview :unknw: I think I understand some of the regrets, but saying that he is only interested in High Scores seems to be really odd :) On the other hand saying that MS is all about money seems appropriate to me. They are not a fan enterprise. They are just an enterpise. They are trying to earn as much money, as possible. They have decided to try a new approach to make the game appealing to broader areas, and we are lucky enough that they have done it without stupidizing the whole game. What is done is done quite allright, the problem is that many things are lacking. Yes, it is a game. Yes, it is focused and not very broad in its content. Yes, the simulation is actually quite good in almost everything that actually WAS modeled. Our biggest hope is that they will continue and add new features, isn't it? I understand that letting out the big birds and long-hauls makes it unappealing to part of the HC, but then... there is still hope that in two, three years the 3pd will help with that.

But we are just told in the article by Mr. Joshua: F$#% You all hard-core simmers just because You're what You are and what I want is Your money first of all"

I'm sorry, Jazzman..I didn't only take that from the interview..You did and that's fine..we shall agree to disagree..But I work in IT. I am a Microsoft Partner. I am used to them being what they are. I'm not at all suprised that they took this model. I am suprised (and really annoyed contrary to some opinions here) they didn't make FSX11, but be sure of one thng; If they had, it would be along the same lines (in terms of a business model) as Flight. It's called SaaS (Software as a Service) and it has ben the "big thing" in software publishing for a few years now..Look at MMPORGs; they hve had the DLC model for ages. FSX11 would have had the DLC model too (and will, if it is ever built)Nobody in this forum (me definitely included) knows what MS have in store for Flight..it gets boring hearing the same old negative it won't do this; they won't do that etc..All I am saying is: let's wait and see. We can all still fly our heavies in FSX (doing KLAX to KJFK tonight - can't wait!)

Yes, it is a game.

for what it's worth, so is FSX, but try telling that to some people..We all love immersion, does it matter how we get it? I still don't get why it's not ok to have positive opinions on Flight (however limited) and somehow that's to the detriment of people who don't like Flight!FSX has coins too remember!!!bestjake

From my read, Joshua Howard clearly:

• Is not a simmer and seems to actually hold simmers in contempt
• Has low respect and/or command of this product's legacy
• Has made calculated move against the previous evolutionary trend of the legacy (more sophistication, not less)
• Has disdain for a market segment that would have VORACIOUSLY consumed ALL of the high-end DLC he could have mustered (I've spent $$$$ on FSX add-ons)
• Has no real plan for the product, short of "we'll play it by ear."
• At his proposed rate, won't even come close to the output that the 3PD (freeware and payware) has developed in 6 years with FSX.
• Will keep Flight on an extended beta, with no roadmap, hoping to waver to and fro with the tides of sentiment and whimsy
• Will never use his own studio to model the world
• Thinks that the high-end add-on market is for silly people who do Long Haul, etc.

In any case, I appreciate that AVSIM has asked good questions and I do appreciate that Josh was forthright on at least some issues. I wouldn't say that Josh's team is building their ship on the open sea, as the ship is an overhauled FSX engine. However, he is renovating on the open seas and plans to just sail about.It is clear that closely monitoring a wide range of participants will likely create a lowest-common-denominator majority for Flight. I appreciate that AVSIM's questions tackled the potential for the "tyranny of the majority," but Josh has made a bold move by eschewing the past in favor of breadth (I see no real opening in his scheme for the "depth" he also claims to want). Tom's opening salvo in December was the shot that destabilized me, and this is the final blow.Of course, it is early days, but I see no light for a simmer in this approach. As such, I can only hope for the following:1) The title is forked into a "Pro" version where, for a princely sum, we get the whole enchilada. Music production software uses this model to great effect. I can accept that the goodies I used to get for $80 will likely set me back 4-5 times that much in a "Pro" version. Which leads me to....2) Prepar3D. I hope that the grip on this is loosened such that it become the bastion for the disenfranchised "legacy" simmer to continue to ride the wave.I have likely burned bridges as I've writhed in mourning pain since December, but that has run its course.This is a nail in my coffin and I now abandon all hope for Flight for anything that the entertainment title that it is and will be. Once I had Flight Assignment ATP and I loved that better than Flight Simulator at the time (I DID want to do Long Haul). FS ATP disappeared and Flight Simulator 98 began a process, culminating in FSX, where by heavy iron desires were handsomely met. Now, my fertile fields are fallow, and Flight is destined to be a "low and slow, Sunday flier affair."My venom and vitriol has alienated many and has met with little sympathy. There is a time for dinosaurs to pass and this is it. Flight will not, in any foreseeable future, accommodate my tastes and that's how she goes.Many of you will enjoy Flight and it is not my place to assail this. Joshua's position is clear and I will credit him with the courage to follow his conventions. I don't think there will be a middle ground for his path: he will either heroically re-envision the title to the acclaim of all, or, this experiment will crash and burn and become the "Windows ME" of the legacy. Time will tell.Tom recently blogged about the boycott of FS2000 when it was determined that the franchise had taken a wrong turn, but Flight is something different. Flight has galvanized many simmers in a way that is actually surprising to me, but it really is moot.In December, I did share, to a degree, the "let's support Flight, and it might evolve..." Today, I become a "luddite" of the sort I mocked for not moving to FSX - I will not progress any further with the franchise. Hawaii was my first and last DLC purchase as I would rather channel my funds towards FSX, Prepar3D, or X-Plane. It doesn't sound like Josh wants, needs, or expects my "hardcore simmer" money anyhow.Flight will be a fun VFR flying game and it is nice that this crowd will get an exclusive - do enjoy.

Wow that is definitely how I feel, but you say it much better than I ever could. You know where the anger sets in for me, and it isn't the fact that there may be people who really enjoy flight, it's when I turn and look at the unfinished crock that is XP10, and then turn to Prepar's $500 price tag with a disclaimer "this is not for you, don't use it... but you can if you have $500."It just feels like the "hardcore simmer" is getting the shaft... and you all are right there was a day when I flew a 747 with a keyboard, I would spend 2 hours trying to land and get bored and go fly under the golden gate bridge... But I always came back. I love playing FPS's and RPG's but once I get bored of them I never go back. After 7 years of coming back I slowly got better, got new aircraft, learned new systems. FSX was awesome in that respect because they had training missions that taught you some of the systems, I really think they were on the right track there.It really is too bad that Flight will be nothing more... It really could be great for everyone.

Stop making boycott calls against Flight. It brings fresh blood into this hobby. By calling people to boycott it you are just hurting your own cause.

Never used "boycott" word. He says: "One of those [tradeoffs] was breaking with the tools that enabled the rich 3rd party ecosystem we had with previous products in the franchise. I do think we will get back to that, but in the mean time we will be managing the content production. We‘re in discussions with other parties about having them develop content alongside us. As to our ability to keep up with what our customers want, we’re not yet able to gauge that."I want give them a gauge.I'm not interested in missions and coconut bras ( at least not in simulated ones :-) ) so I'll not buy theese kinds of expansions.[/quote., I']I'm interested in simflight, scenic vfr, but also radio navigation, realistic procedures, realistic planes made by other partners, and if (better, I would hope can say not "if" but "when") Flight will have theese things I will buy that kind of expansions.Simple, linear, customers makes market.

Don't hold your breath. MSFS is not coming back unless the hard core sim market grows ten times in size this year. That's an inconvenient truth but you should come to accept it eventually.

Sad but true.Probably 90% of the people will appreciate the game as it is, and will buy the videogame-like expansions, so the "gauge" will indicate the direction I wouldn't want.Fortunately it's not a planetary catastrophe, we can survive :-) :-)