I tend to agree with Josh in that the VAST VAST majority of people (not SIMMERS) dont want to spend 10 hours babysitting a computer in a 747. Those people are a niche, but a very strong and loud niche. The thing is, you need to spend a MASSIVE ammount of resources to please that niche, and in turn, alianate Flights target market. I dont see a PMDG level jump in Flight future.I am pleased to hear that Flight is beating there forcast, but they never stated what the forcast was. One would not expect there forcast to be "total fail", so its most likley good news for fans of Flight!I hope demand gets to the point they give me a phone call, but im not going to bank on that. Till that happens, im still making FSX add-on's.

Well how small is that "niche"?.. I still see a lot of devs realeasing new products, highly detail products for that small niche, for me it seems "it is not a small world after all"Of course, if MS if monitoring Flight, it will be very difficult for them to gather true valuable information about Simmers preferences, as long as real hardcores probably will be flying FS9 or FSX, most of them will still use it instead of Flight. I'm impressed of the amount of people actually flying in ]VATSIM or IVAO, the amount of people buying Leveld D 767, PMDG etc. IMHO this interview clearly shows MS intentions not to work on FS11 or any real complex aircraft, and to keep in the direction of easy flying, nice spotting scenerios, and self development policies.Nothing new, from what we expected months ago.

Tom.An excellent interview, covering all the hard questions. A pity the respondants replies were so vague, evaisive and just so much spin.All in all though this interview has left me in no doubt about the general direction in which "Flight" is headed. It is primarily a game and will never be what I consider to be a flight simulator. More disturbingly that MicroSoft has no plans for future development of its flight simulator franchise.

Absolutely agree with you, clearly stated, just a game, no plans to implement simulation in it. cheers

Ups... I must have downloaded wrong edition by chance, there is a lot of simulation in my game... :Thinking: Anyway, back to angry birds. :Nerd:

In what area? That most people dont want to stare blankly at a 737 dash on autopilot for hours? I dont think im that far off the mark. The niche that DO like that number in the 10's of thousands, yes, but MS is interested in the MILLIONS, not the thousands.The market has been in decline for years now. Fly? Flight Unlimited? Janes? All have died due to the declining market. Just because it was popular in the past, does not mean it will always be that way. I remember times when the PC game sections were DOMINATED by flight sims. Now, you wont find any on the market. You need to go online to find DCS or XP, and maybe if your lucky, youll find an old copy of FSX on Target.

Maybe thounsands, but those thousands are faithfull and loyal customers, the millions you are talking about are the ones that today likes your game, tomorrow will go for another one, wont pay for extras, will only use the demo, or the basic, cause are not into it, and if tomorrow PS3 has another flying game, they will go for it, of course I know that from these millions MS makes money, and I wont argue that with you, is very clear.

Well how small is that "niche"?.. I still see a lot of devs realeasing new products, highly detail products for that small niche, for me it seems "it is not a small world after all"

See this post here:http://forum.avsim.n...34#entry2101534The number of 40,000 refers to the entire flight sim market. So I would think that the market for complex airliners is even smaller. Probably too small for MS.

for anyone waiting and wishing for any airliner flying, then if the final nail in the coffin hadn't already been hammered in for you, it has been now.it was a good interview with some very decent questions. The main thing was that the interview confirmed that realistically, airliners will not be an option in Flight.so it's FSX or XP10 for the forseeable future. And from what I have seen, XP10 won't be matching my FSX setup for at least a year.

.....most people dont want to stare blankly at a 737 dash on autopilot for hours....

It seems like every time somone mentions wanting to fly something bigger than a breadbox, someone else says something about staring at an autopilot for hours on end. I personally like to mostly fly small to medium turboprops, but occasionally like to take a short flight in a 737 for a change of pace. I don't fly the whole route on autopilot, and it is a totally different experience landing a 737 compared to a Maule or Cessna.Being able to replicate Alaskan Flight 66 in a 737-400 from Anchorage to Cordova to Yakutat to Juneau might be a nice change of pace in Flight from buzzing pinapple trees in a Maule.

See this post here:http://forum.avsim.n...34#entry2101534The number of 40,000 refers to the entire flight sim market. So I would think that the market for complex airliners is even smaller. Probably too small for MS.

At last some numbers! Thanks for posting / linking that.For reference current big-budget games (the ones that are developed by teams of 50-100 full-time developers, unlike most flightsim add-ons) need to sell 1-2 million units just to break-even.

Thank you, TomThank you, JoshuaThe interview is an interesting one, it is a good rehash.Some points from me:I still use old Flight Unlimited 2 and Flight Unlimited 3. At this stage Microsoft Flight looks almost analogous, just ATC and traffic are missing.For me, the Flight is an unexpected step back, to the Flight Unlimited conception of flying.At the same time, I like Flight very much for the feeling of flight it gives me, I feel the air here, I really feel it, thanks MS team for this. I am a virtual "bush pilot" and I am happy with this product. I'll by Alaska for sure. But... today the world of Flight is so empty... no big jets flying from/to Flight's big airports and staying at the gates, no other small airplanes around you (multyplay can be fun, but limited on numbers of flying planes a bit, I do not have a feeling of "busy" sky).And one more point to add. About new "customers types"... in Flight we have to work a bit to prepare our planes for the mission - to calculate fuel needed and other things. And there is definitely a lack of tools to do it in the sim. How those "new customers" will do it? I can do it, as I was "flying" since FS3 and have some real-life experience. But what about those "new type customers"? I think this is a question for the next intreview.

I thought the questions Tom asked were very well balanced, and a good reflection of the complex myriad views on FLIGHT, that we have here in the community.I am left feeling optimistic that we will get TrackIR now, but I fear the timescale that JH would consider may disappoint those of us holding off from FLIGHT until we get that TrackIR support. (I am doubtful we will even get TIR support this year but I am sure now we will get it).JH has a very defined "in stone" view on things. I guess you have to working for MS! ....... Eg. He does not seem to even consider the fact that many gamers use and love something like TrackIR, as well as the 'simmers' that he definately seem to lack love for! :lol:I can understand, given his roadmap for FLIGHT that he is not looking at something like long-haul flight capabilties. I don't like it, but I can understand how that would not fit with his roadmap for the wide audience.But I think there are other areas where his fixed views and opinions on things, will potentially mean he is missing opportunities for FLIGHT to become more rounded and appealing to all (even pesky gamers lol!)...... Eg. I am sure gamers would love some ATC interaction, and some other planes in the sky, (oh and of course TrackIR... did I mention that?).Overall, I felt myself enjoying Tom's side of the interview more than JHs!

See this post here:http://forum.avsim.n...34#entry2101534The number of 40,000 refers to the entire flight sim market. So I would think that the market for complex airliners is even smaller. Probably too small for MS.

The ENTIRE FS market is too small for Microsoft; hence, the 'ecosystem' of Flight and it's expansion to a larger audience.Airliners vs. GA? Just look at the number of Sub Forums devoted to airliners on this site alone! Nine (9) in the Commercial Support Forums, five (5) in the Non Commercial/ Freeware Support Forums, not to mention the hundreds of entries in the other Sub Forums regarding airliners... there's definitely a larger airliner enthusiast base than both GA and Military combined!Honestly... you guys can't see that?

Interesting interview which only confirms my earlier decision to stay with FS9.David

"Flight already has a much wider audience profile than past products in the franchise, and those people are asking for us to improve the product in a variety of other ways (many of which are about improving the quality of the game, like adding leaderboards, multiplayer missions, or new challenge types)."Are you reading the same interview? There is zero inferences in what Joshua said of anything that would interest the hardcore simmer, in fact he stated the opposite and as another poster in this thread pointed out actually displayed contempt for this community. So any thought that Flight will some how turn into FSXI at this point is nothing more then wishful thinking that won't happen.

Maybe you didn't read what I wrote. Those people want leaderboards and more multiplayer missions. Yes because that is fun for now, but most aviation enthusiasts will get bored of doing that sort of thing, and will eventually want what we all want. I'm not saying that day is very soon, but it will come. Just enjoy FSX for the time being, the game is still pretty young, considering what PMDG and REX and ORBx are all up to.

Hi Angels 355,It's hard to believe that after all these years you are writing on AVSIM for the first time! Better late than never so you are most welcome here. As another old time hardcore flight simmer I am reminded that we all have seen business and entertainment cycles before. Things leave, go around and eventually comeback, not always the same way, but the pendulum swings like a pendulum do.It might take awhile, but we will be politically correct again. If Flight does indeed add the many millions of flyers as they hope, or even a fraction of those numbers, then time will flood our ranks with new hardcore flight simmers a generation or two younger than we are. They too will come to want their hobby to be as real as it gets. Virtual reality is increasingly too intoxicating to resist.Given human nature I think flight simulation will return, in a big way. So, give it some time, and with a little bit of luck things will be better before we know it. Glad you jumped in.Kind regards,

EXACTLY! People just need to be patient, and think back to their first days of flight simming. I've said it before, but I'll say it again, I'm sure you all weren't flying ILS approaches from the get go, you get intrigued by that sort of thing as time progresses and you mature as an aviation enthusiast.

Not to get off topic but if MS wanted to make me happy and a lot of others.(I know they don't care about making me happy, they care about making money) They could have come out with SP3 for FSX when they released Flight. SP3 could have been something as simple as fixing DX10 and some other little things. I probably would have even paid "good money" for it. They could have thrown the dog a bone, so to speak. I think this would have calmed down the so called "vocal minority" that were expecting Flight to be Flight Simulator XI. Meanwhile they could have continued to target mass audiences with Flight. Eventually the mass audiences will either get bored with Flight or want more realistic content as we do, causing Flight to evolve into something simmers expected. Then again I know MS isn't in to making everyone happy, they're into making money.Of course, they would have gotten money from me for a quality SP3 for FSX. They haven't got a dime from me for Flight, but as someone else pointed out in this thread they aren't missing my money, apparently. If anyone at MS is listening just give me some AI planes, at least basic ATC and real world weather and I would be gobbling up DLC!

Airliners vs. GA? Just look at the number of Sub Forums devoted to airliners on this site alone! Nine (9) in the Commercial Support Forums, five (5) in the Non Commercial/ Freeware Support Forums, not to mention the hundreds of entries in the other Sub Forums regarding airliners... there's definitely a larger airliner enthusiast base than both GA and Military combined!Honestly... you guys can't see that?

But it's a skewed, self-fulfilling prophecy comparison. So called 'hardcore simmers' install FSX, then find their system is lagging, so they Google for a solution and find this forum. Once they find it, a large number of them stay.People not satisfied with the stock planes in FSX similarly Google to find different content, and find this forum. Once they find it, a large number of them stay, as well.Users unsatisfied with stock scenery... do you see where I'm going with this?The demographic NOT accurately represented on here, is the one that purchases FSX, install and run it without additional content, or without assistance in tweaking their system for maximum performance. Which, I suspect, is the vast overwhelming majority of users. Those users are far less likely to seek out, and join and participate in a forum such as this.

I am floored by the responses on FB... By the way he talked I figured 95% of the posts would be along the lines of "yea you simmers take that!" But it is the complete opposite. I think they should re-evaluate their business model if they actually want to make money. I just hope if/when it fails they open it up to 3dp's and not just lock it out, everything is there deep inside the file structure and I am sure the community can fix their product for them... Again