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dburne

I just have to wonder...

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I believe that the message MS were trying to purvey to the sim community was scrambled and they never managed to actually get that message across.

 

The essence of FLIGHT from my point of view was that it was plug and play and anyone interested in flight sims could get involved and see if they wanted to continue.

 

For some reason the many people already involved in this hobby were seen as the enemy and were actively discouraged. Im playing devils advocate here because like many, I was ready to spend my money and make a contribution to Flights future by buying DLC. However, planes without cockpits was so alien a concept I had nothing to spend my money on. Time after time, it seemed that as a normal enthusiast I was being shunned.

 

The whole concept has been massively mismanaged and the work and detail that has gone into what we have by the people at the sharp end must be hard to take and I feel for them.

 

Should more DLC be released (assuming its not more planes without cockpits) I'm buying it to show my support for those that worked so hard and to show MS that they were wrong.

 

It's almost impossible to judge from multiplayer how many people are using flight. Yesterday I took a look and found players. No more, or less than we're using it at what might have been its peek.

 

MS had an established market that it shunned and a new market that it didn't bring along with it. To me that shows a complete lack of leadership, and vision. The developers lost out and so did their customers.

 

To any Devs that may read these forums I salute you guys and I for one will continue with Flight because when I go up to my erm cockpit and fire it all up, it feels like I'm in it.

 

Bri

 

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The MASSIVE complaints would imo put off ANY developers. Not to mention the people planning the strategies and those sitting firmly on the money bag.

 

The harshest complaining was prior to Flight's release, as is evidenced by the posts in this forum that got closed before it's release. Then afterwards, the largest complaints were mostly by those that did not even give Flight a try, or tried it for about 30 minutes and quit. I am sure it had an effect on the Flight team itself, not so sure it would have had an effect on the powers to be at MS that made this decision, that was probably based on money - sales, profit, and return on investment. I personally think that decision was made in haste, for whatever reason, without giving it a chance to do any maturing.

 

Bottom line is, we ( and likely the Flight team as well), will probably never know the true reason for this quick departure.

I just hope they leave the servers up and we have the same easy access as we have today, for a long time because I certainly want to keep flying the sim. For me, when it comes to the fun factor, I got a great bang for the buck on this one.

 

 

Should more DLC be released (assuming its not more planes without cockpits) I'm buying it to show my support for those that worked so hard and to show MS that they were wrong.

 

 

I am with you on that one, I plan to do the same. I really do hope we get something else, rumour already has it there was a plane either almost finished or finishes, that "may" see the light of day.

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What else is there to say : MS has used very little perception on those choices, was even badder in communicating with the players, as bad as preventing the posts in the MSF blog... IF they had been able to reconsider their position during the whole no-cocpit mess and tried in any way not to get the FSX community against their new project...

 

To me that shows a complete lack of leadership, and vision. The developers lost out and so did their customers.

 

To any Devs that may read these forums I salute you guys and I for one will continue with Flight (...)

 

Same feelings & actions here :P

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MSF wanted to appeal to gamers, planes with no guns.

To simmers, planes with no cockpits.

It's that easy.

 

Probably the best summary I have heard so far. :)


 

 

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PostInboundFour953, on 05 August 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

MSF wanted to appeal to gamers, planes with no guns.

To simmers, planes with no cockpits.

It's that easy.

 

I'd add that putting ingame planes with nothing special to do with them is something I still have a hard time finding intelligent...

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Flight's main fault was not keeping that high enthusiasm fueled with the proper content for their core supporters. When they finally realized and started to add content it was too late. Proper communication was also blocked early on because:.

 

They were condemned in the court of public opinion and were given no support from those who suckled from the FSX cow. Flight is a Bull roaming in it's own pasture.

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Everyone should read the article that LHOOKINS posted about Microsoft. After I read it, the fact that Flight and it's cancellation didn't make any sense... actually made total sense.

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It is a common sentiment that people believe Flight was destined for the "gamer" market. But, is that really true?

 

Certainly, Flight does not fall into any of the common "gamer" categories. It is not a Fantasy/Role-Playing game (although one could argue that the Clipper Captain wanna-bes in FS did play this way Just%20Kidding.gif .) Nor is it a First Person Shooter, Action/Adventure, Strategy, Puzzle, or any other of the common game types.

 

So, how can the target market be "gamers" when the title itself is not that type of game? True, there are "game" elements in Flight such as points to earn, awards, game levels, hunts and hoops. But, all of those game elements are tied to activities that pilots commonly carry out, not to the play that is typical of video games.

 

On the contrary, it seems that Flight was meant to appeal to a completely different market, not gamers, not the traditional airliner simmer either. Rather, there is a large number of people passionate about aviation, the ones who visit air and space museums (and make those the most visited attractions in the country.) They attend air shows, and races, en masse. They love and dream of flying. But, they don't use FS!

 

Why? For the reasons we all know. It is too complex, too difficult to use. And the reality is that most people don't want to learn how to fly. Because it is too hard, too complicated. All they want is to get the impression that they are flying, to make believe that they are in the air.

 

Flight is a simulator game that is meant for that market. It is meant to be easy for anybody to get up in the air, with little or no knowledge of the complexities of flying. Without even the need for special hardware ("just use the mouse" as the trailers have been saying since the beginning.)

 

However, because of the history of the title, and probably because of the pride of the developers in their work, Flight is also a realistic simulator, the best flying version of FS so far. So, anybody that wants to fly by the book can do so. But, without turning off those who just want to fly, not to learn to fly.

 

So, I disagree that Flight was meant for "gamers", that they rejected it, and that this is the reason why it was canceled. For that matter, we don't even know why it was canceled as MGS has not given any reason. It is all just speculation at this point.

 

Best regards.

Luis

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The harshest complaining was prior to Flight's release (....) Then afterwards, the largest complaints were mostly by those that did not even give Flight a try, or tried it for about 30 minutes and quit. I am sure it had an effect on the Flight team itself, not so sure it would have had an effect on the powers to be at MS that made this decision, that was probably based on money - sales, profit, and return on investment.

 

Yes says it all, dosn't it. Massive complaints even pre release is not very inspiring to the ones putting their hart and soul into it. I am sure this had an effect on both development and sales, which in turn led to the quick and sudden "death".

 

Just can"t imagine last has been said, given the amount of cash invested. Not to mention the MS reputation in all this.

 

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I am with you on that one, I plan to do the same. I really do hope we get something else, rumour already has it there was a plane either almost finished or finishes, that "may" see the light of day.

 

We can but have faith that they will release whatever they have available.

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If true Luis, then that is an even bigger factor for failure since I feel that market is even smaller than the gamer or hardcore market. There are so many questions left unanswered.

 

When you look at the live marketplace scenario and the parts of the world released at seperate times scheme, it seems they had a plan, a strategy for marketing Flight, yet the sporatic and lackluster release of DLC says otherwise, not to mention shutting it down so early. The Josh Howard statements that the existing community wasn't it's target market was also a big mistake and one that could have easily been fixed by providing other aircraft and scenery areas to keep that part of the market content while pandering to their percieved market. I also imagine that if they had offered cockpits with the warbirds and opened up the Pacific theatre island areas as a DLC, they would have also captured another small part of the market. If they had just tried to capture all the different markets at once, rather than focus on one specifc, untested one, who knows what might have happened.

 

I really wish they had released a nice heli before shutting down, would have went a long way with me enjoying it for a lot longer. They should pack up some FSX assets in Flight format and release them, I'd love the have the default jetranger in Flight, LOL.


Best, Michael

KDFW

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Yes says it all, dosn't it. Massive complaints even pre release is not very inspiring to the ones putting their hart and soul into it. I am sure this had an effect on both development and sales, which in turn led to the quick and sudden "death".

 

Just can"t imagine last has been said, given the amount of cash invested. Not to mention the MS reputation in all this.

 

I understand this is your hobby (it's mine too) and maybe even your passion, but the hit to MS' balance sheet is insignificant and probably doesn't even register 1 tenth of one percent of MS' total budget. While the amount of money spent on Flight would be a great deal of money to you and me, so would their landscaping budget. And the reputation hit? Non existent, unless you only factor in the Flight Sim community.

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Flight is a simulator game that is meant for that market. It is meant to be easy for anybody to get up in the air, with little or no knowledge of the complexities of flying. Without even the need for special hardware ("just use the mouse" as the trailers have been saying since the beginning.)

 

However, because of the history of the title, and probably because of the pride of the developers in their work, Flight is also a realistic simulator, the best flying version of FS so far. So, anybody that wants to fly by the book can do so. But, without turning off those who just want to fly, not to learn to fly.

 

So, I disagree that Flight was meant for "gamers", that they rejected it, and that this is the reason why it was canceled. For that matter, we don't even know why it was canceled as MGS has not given any reason. It is all just speculation at this point.

 

Well said Luis. Its a shame MS didnt say it so well.

 

For those new to our pastime, or those that got tired of the frustration, who got involved because it was a new and refreshing route into what can, and does become a lifetime passion, the door has been closed. Its those people I feel for, amongs others. Yes, there are other options which some may have abandoned, and those options do require some dedication. You get out of something as much as you put in, which is why so many of us are passionate about what we do.

Those of us, who have given this hobby many years, also got gratification out of Flight, were willing to give it a fair chance and got something back from it. As you say it is the best flying version of FS to date.

Its only when something is taken away, that you realise how much it means to you. As you say, we can only speculate as to the why. However, MS gave many hope and others a brief and tantalising glimpse into the world of computer flight. MS dangled a carrot and took it away. That behaviour was not expected from such a large and powerful organisation. It seems to me, that no matter how small the market you appeal to is. Your customer is what feeds you ultimately.

We can argue that they didn’t make a large enough return, and I will argue that they didn’t give it a chance of success.

I’m sure the 3rd party’s that have spent many hours on this project, although they have been paid, may be speculating on the viability of any future MS projects, be they Flight related or not. And if they are not, then maybe they should.

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Although not very likely, I really hope MS will notice how the complaints for the most part have turned into complants about the canning of the project, and reconsider.
Complaints do not matter at all if software keeps selling well, and on the other hand if it sells too badly no matter how good feedback they get they will still stop the project.

 

Flight simply likely didn't sell as well as Microsoft wanted it to sell, and that's why they stopped development. Not because of complaints. Microsoft simply harshly overestimated number of potential customers outside FS community.

 

As Flight didn't sell enough and MS was going to close that game studio anyway it made perfect sense to stop development for Flight... Of course this is just what I believe myself.

 

Most of the complaints about Flight were inside FS forums anyway and thus didn't affect most of Flights potential customers.

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Yes says it all, dosn't it. Massive complaints even pre release is not very inspiring to the ones putting their hart and soul into it. I am sure this had an effect on both development and sales, which in turn led to the quick and sudden "death".

 

Just can"t imagine last has been said, given the amount of cash invested. Not to mention the MS reputation in all this.

 

There are massive pre-release complaints about the new (ex) Metro Windows 8 interface, and not only from enthusiasts forums, but from influential companies like Gartner also. And while almost noone knows Flight outside the simmer community, Windows 8 is the flagship MS product.

 

As with Vista, a Windows 8 failure (and reputation loss) will be enterily on those at MS who made the wrong decisions ignoring their users' needs. And for the matter they had to write off *billions* just because someone acquired an online adverstising company that never brought in the money they thought. Who was to blame? Those who didn't clicked their ads "to support them"? Wait for Skype being next in line - and there are no users complain about Skype (but here again noone wants to pay, as with Flight DLCs...)

 

MS has lost a lot of reputation in the past years because of its bad management and silly decisions, not because of user complains.

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