The fire bells have gone off at the same moment the PO calls Vr. In fact you might not even have heard him.

Do you?

1. Continue with the take-off

2. Abandon the take-off.

a/c weight 98,750kgs=65% AUW

V1 116

Vr 124

V2 144

V2+25 169

V2+45 189

V2+60 204

Mfr 190

Fus 204

Vat 128

Airfield elev. 386m

wind Var

Temp 15c

4,000ft to end of overrun area

Total landing distance 6700ft

 

 

DOUBLE ENGINE FAILURE—TAKE OFF CONFIGURATION

 

Throttles ALL Fully forward

Aileron Upset Normal

Fuel Jettison Jettison from all tanks

Engine Fire/ Complete Immediate Actions

Failure Drills

 

Minimum climb speed FLAPS OUT/SLATS OUT V₂+20

Minimum SLAT RETRACT speed V₂+45

Minimum speed Flaps up/SLATS IN V₂+60

Engine Fire Drill Secondary Actions when convenient

 

 

TWO ENGINE APPROACH AND LANDING

 

In an emergency such as this where conditions of AUW and

density altitude can vary widely, no hard and fast rules can

be laid down; but the following notes will provide positive

guidance:-

 

 

1.

Reduce AUW by jettisoning fuel.

2.

Maintain V

₂

+60kts on the down-wind leg and carry out

The approach check less flaps.

3.

Allow 3 mins. To free fall gear. (Drag penalty due to

Gear doors remaining open.)

4.

On final approach complete landing check

5.

Keep slightly above the glide-slope; select flaps/slats T.O./20° and commence descent.

Maintain normal configuration VAT+20kts.

6.

At 800ft. terminate fuel jettisoning.

7.

At 300ft. centralise rudder trim.

8.

At 100ft. provided landing on runway is assured, select flap LDG/45° and allow speed to fall to not below VAT+5kts at flare, but it should be borne in mind that the increase in landing distance is of the order of 2000/2500ft on Standard/Super aircraft at weights approaching max T.O.W.

 

Take it to the skies. It is a flight failure after V1 especially if you are passing through Vr.

Continue Takeoff... B)

 

Regards,

Ró.

I don't understand why there's choices! Vr would obviously be beyond V1. Like those guys said^^!

Take it to the skies. It is a flight failure after V1 especially if you are passing through Vr.

In this scenario V1 and Vr are simultaneous. The calls are together.

In this scenario V1 and Vr are simultaneous. The calls are together.

No they're not, V1 is 116 and VR is 124... :mellow: :huh:

 

Regards,

Ró.

After V1 you take off no matter what. No matter what.

 

I guess if you lost both engines you won't be able to achieve a positive rate of climb, so you won't raise the gear. You'll have to stick forward to keep it from stalling and you'll dump back on the runway. Then STAND on the brakes and hope the gear collapse in the gravel pit at the runway end doesn't rip any fuel tanks...

I don't understand why there's choices! Vr would obviously be beyond V1. Like those guys said^^!

There are only 8kts between the speeds and the calls as said would be simultaneous.

The engine fire started at V1

 

No they're not, V1 is 116 and VR is 124... :mellow: :huh:

 

Regards,

Ró.

Yes they're 8 kts apart. The firebells came on at V1. The acceleration of the a/c is such that in the time to say V1 Vr has already passed.

Pressing P, checking why the heck I've enable failures on that short after work flight. What?

 

Wait, are you describing that all engines failed? :o Ah, there are two left. Well, won't be the easiest climb out I guess, but I can't relate the GW to the plane you are using there.

 

Either way, the flight may be the safer option than trying to stop with only two (reversers) running and already being well beyond V1. V1 has been calculated for a reason, therefore, the 'go' looks mandatory to my sim eyes.

 

Statistics say that the crews did more harm with trying to stop after V1 than with trying to fly and land. Lets hope they are correct.

After V1 you take off no matter what. No matter what.

 

I guess if you lost both engines you won't be able to achieve a positive rate of climb, so you won't raise the gear. You'll have to stick forward to keep it from stalling and you'll dump back on the runway. Then STAND on the brakes and hope the gear collapse in the gravel pit at the runway end doesn't rip any fuel tanks...

 

If there was another 500-1,000ft of rwy with this exact scenario then you could stop it on the tarmac. In fact as it stands the a/c would come to a halt literally at the end of the rwy. So in this case it is correct to take-off. Having said that the remaining engines are at full throttle until levelling off and even then are more than 90% n2 until over the threshold. You have a partial electrical failure, your speeds on take-off and climb out have to very precise

There are only 8kts between the speeds and the calls as said would be simultaneous.

The engine fire started at V1

 

 

Yes they're 8 kts apart. The firebells came on at V1. The acceleration of the a/c is such that in the time to say V1 Vr has already passed.

It takes 0.5 seconds, less even, to say "VeeOneRotate", if 8kts in that short space was gained then I'd say you'd more than enough power to take her up.

 

But I mean it's all so hypothetical, The aircraft has four engines, are at least 3 require to achieve minimum climb gradient? Is there a mountain or cliff at the end of the runway? Was there an explosion with possible damage to wing suface? Is fuel spilling over it at a rapid rate? Is there an airport 5 miles away with a 12,000' runway at my 12 O'Clock? We don't know, so the generic answer is, you've passed V1, keep on going... And given that V1 and Vr were separated, that means that it's probably going to be V1 limiting takeoff, otherwise v1 would have been equal to, or much closer to vr...

 

Regards,

Ró.

Pressing P, checking why the heck I've enable failures on that short after work flight. What?

 

Wait, are you describing that all engines failed? :o

These failure are not "enabled" they're built into the model! Just the 2 engines. With this a/c it would have to be at mimimum flyable weight to get by on 1 engine. In fact you probably would not take-off.

There are only 8kts between the speeds and the calls as said would be simultaneous.

The engine fire started at V1

 

 

Yes they're 8 kts apart. The firebells came on at V1. The acceleration of the a/c is such that in the time to say V1 Vr has already passed.

 

You takeoff. There is no choice here. I don't understand the long post and question of yours. What are you driving at? By saying you are already past V1, you've answered your own question. You takeoff. If the malfunction occured before V1, then you should abort. If after, you continue. To be asking this question, I am sure there is something about the concept of V1 and Vr that you do not understand. Perhaps we can help you come to a better understanding of it.

It takes 0.5 seconds, less even, to say "VeeOneRotate", if 8kts in that short space was gained then I'd say you'd more than enough power to take her up.

 

But I mean it's all so hypothetical, The aircraft has four engines, are at least 3 require to achieve minimum climb gradient? Is there a mountain or cliff at the end of the runway? Was there an explosion with possible damage to wing suface? Is fuel spilling over it at a rapid rate? Is there an airport 5 miles away with a 12,000' runway at my 12 O'Clock? We don't know, so the generic answer is, you've passed V1, keep on going... And given that V1 and Vr were separated, that means that it's probably going to be V1 limiting takeoff, otherwise v1 would have been equal to, or much closer to vr...

 

Regards,

Ró.

Your arguments are totally correct. And there is still plenty of power to take-off. Also you've raised a good point from the landing point of view. In that it would be better to take-off, turn left a bit and continue to Torino Caselle which has a10,000ft rwy which means I can come in fast. I'll use up all the rwy probably

I wake up sweating.