This post directed to Randy Smith:Randy, nothing personal but we must objectively compare the new Ariane 737 to that of PMDG. While the PMDG 737 is good, it is not a complete sim for there is no Inertial Navigation/Reference System modeled at all. It is VERY unrealistic not to have this part of a modern avionics suite modeled. Futhermore it does not appear at this time that PMDG will ever update their 737 with a functional IRS. This is a serious shortcoming for a sim with PMDG's pricetag.In addition, PMDG customers are forced to pay for a product TWICE to gain both full functionality and serious bug fixes for their base product 737. If one does not spend an additonal $30.00 for the PMDG 'upgrade/patch' in addition to the base price of $40.00, the EHSI will display a rather serious lateral track error. In essence customers have to pay for a bug fix in this regard. That's just plain cheesy.I for one am willing to give Ariane a chance, all rhetoric aside. Competition is good for the add-on marketplace and serves the best interests of simmming consumers. Calling the Ariane 737 a toy compared to PMDG is irresponsible as I will assume you have never even purchased or used the Ariane product have you? I am very intersted in their product because of PMDG's aforementioned shortcomings.

Are you kidding me Eric is it? Lets be realistic here, Araine has spent the past few months BASHING PMDG on their web site proclaiming how superior 737 NG is to the PMDG. So let's talk Eric.1]"While the PMDG 737 is good, it is not a complete sim for there is no Inertial Navigation/Reference System modeled at all. It is VERY unrealistic not to have this part of a modern avionics suite modeled." Ok, no IRS. Yeah it would have been really nice to have but only the uninformed armchair sim pilot who never set foot on the real NG flight deck would claim that it is so important as YOU imply. IRS is one of the LEAST things the pilots mess with and as with the PMDG's FMC all you have do to is copy the GPS coord into the set IRS and you will be following after MANY real world pilots actions regarding the IRS! So hopefully PMDG will add this but no real PILOT that I know that flys the PMDG has complained at all about the IRS. 2]"In addition, PMDG customers are forced to pay for a product TWICE to gain both full functionality and serious bug fixes for their base product 737. If one does not spend an additonal $30.00 for the PMDG 'upgrade/patch' in addition to the base price of $40.00, the EHSI will display a rather serious lateral track error. In essence customers have to pay for a bug fix in this regard. That's just plain cheesy." Did the PMDG 600-700 at least come with a PROGRESS/HOLD/FIX page on the FMC??? Araine has stated in their DOCS that users can UPGRADE in 2005 for these updates! Sounds like pot calling kettle black EH? Nowhere did PMDG DECIEVE it's customers by HIDING information like this prior to purchacing, with Araine you get the impression that their FMC is at LEAST in par with PMDG's FMS but as we see it's all marketing.It seems to me that your opinion on PMDG's "Shortcommings" is shared mainly by non pilots, since the PMDG is used by MANY RL pilots and some to pratice for approaches they have never been before, can Araine claim this type of useage? I DOUBT it since facts speak louder than Araine's rhetoric... Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4][h3]P M D G's 747-400[/h3][h4]coming to a runway near you[/h4][/font color]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

For me the critical question is how well it works with the PM suite. Despite the efforts of many I have never been able to make the PMDG 737 compatible with PM software or even close for that matter. If I could use the PM FMC and MCP with it I would be willing to overlook its other shortcomings. Also, the recent "Cutters Goose" release has icing windows. Nice touch that would be great to see more of!David

So, to sum it all up, will I be buying it or not? No, I won't. :)

Hello George, how have you been? I am sure this thread will see the locked icon very soon lol! Why is it that there are NEW folks who choose to proclaim/argue the Araine products on this forum? I really wonder if Tishma is really behind some of these posts? [h2]I'll tell you what, anyone who pays 83 American dollars for an "incomplete" NG then complains that one has to pay TWICE (and this is STILL cheaper than Araine's!!) to be able to have all the goodies PMDG has to offer is laughable at best ;D[/h2]Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4][h3]P M D G's 747-400[/h3][h4]coming to a runway near you[/h4][/font color]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

Hi, me again...All PMDG vs Ariane bashing aside.I was atleast hoping for a more functional FMC. For some months now Ariane has - on their own webpage - marketed their NG as the new landmark in Aircraft Simulation, the bet is still on since I have yet to see reviews by legit sources (AVSIM, FS Nordic, etc).However, I find the FIX page very useful, weither it's for situation awareness or just for the heck of it. The HOLD page is useful aswell, and I bet it's very instrumental when flying those tight airspace approaches into heavy trafficed airports.There is also no 2d panel available, and I always fly in 2d mode, even though my hardware is more than enough to cope with the work load.It will take more than boasting and cheap selling arguments on their webpage to convince me. Their slogan-ish webpage is more designed for selling overweight diet pills than an aircraft for FS2004 if you ask me.

....also, Bill Lyons implemented windscreen icing on the Goose package he released a few months ago.....

Let us compare:PMDG:737 the Next Generation (-600/-700) - $30. - Free upgrades, free liveries.737 the Next Generation (-800/-900) - $40. - Free upgrades, free liveries. - Excellent forum support, punctual E-mail support (I would know).FMC: Extremely complete, updated constantly.No IRS/INSTOTAL: $70.Ariane:737-900VCe (-900 VARIANT ONLY) - $90USD (varies, but around there) - Need to pay for individual liveries. - Need to pay for upgrade (SPECIAL EDITION, OPS). - No 2D panel (if done, will be additional cost). - No support forum, support E-mail only. - Only one variant. Others will incur additional cost (at least $25 knowing Bobbo). FMC: Incomplete. (upgrade on OPS version is 2005SO:$90$25x3 (3 variants)= $75OPS VERSION= $30 (assuming you don't want the features in the special edition, then add $30 as estimate)TOTAL: ~$195.So, come again. Which would be the more convenient product? Is an INS/IRS worth the additional $125?Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)

2]"In addition, PMDG customers are forced to pay for a product TWICE to gain both full functionality and serious bug fixes for their base product 737. If one does not spend an additonal $30.00 for the PMDG 'upgrade/patch' in addition to the base price of $40.00, the EHSI will display a rather serious lateral track error. In essence customers have to pay for a bug fix in this regard. That's just plain cheesy."That's funny. I purchased the ALL the PMDG planes "ONCE" and got fully funtioning models. Why did you pay twice..ROFLI won't get into the actual purpose of this thread..lol

LI3K OMG! I"M HARDKOR3!!!!!!!!!!111111111111Tip: The more hardcore you assert yourself to be, the more foolish you look to me. It rhymes, and it's true.As for Ariane, you know my feelings about them. PT can go to hell as far as I am concerned. This is the guy who tried to patent the phrase 'flight simulation,' remember?

Just taking count here... 40 posts and still no lock. This one might actually make it for a while (yeah, right :-) ).Greg

:-)

You must be in a tolerant mood today, Ken.Greg

I'll get it when it moves to the freeware bin :)

Well...It would be nice if everyone could compare/contrast based on the actual planes themselves and keep out personal attacks, profanity, etc. If that can remain, I see no reason why I should lock this up.Now back to compiling my linux kernel...