Times they are a changin...

 

We are moving from an era of perceived ownership (I have a DVD, it's mine) to an era of realization that we never owned it but were simply a licensed user. I think the thing that gauls users coming to this realization most is that the real owners of the software are doing a very poor job of assuring users that nothing has changed. Sadly, they lack any customer service expertise and have a habit of making users feel like suspected pirates.

As I said above, legacy software still works in Windows 8, this isn't about the past, it is about the future.

 

Of course in the future it will it be possible to develop and deploy new Win8 applications in the traditional way in future. Don't you think the commercial software houses would have been screaming by now if it wasn't?

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Of course in the future it will it be possible to develop and deploy new Win8 applications in the traditional way in future. Don't you think the commercial software houses would have been screaming by now if it wasn't?

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Actually, some of them are, and Valve/steam is even making preparations to go onto the linux platform. In other news....

 

http://www.tomshardw...well,16788.html

 

Third parties rejected the "share your profits with us" model offered by Microsoft with FLIGHT! and I don't think regular game developers are any more happy with the idea of a walled garden where they would be forced to jump through proprietary Microsoft hoops and distribution schemes.

To be fair in Microsoft's regard, the devs actually screaming at the Win8 Store concept are the ones already running their own 'wallet garden'. So it's interesting to see where the most vocal critics arise from and what their arguments are.

 

Steam and Origin. With Origin actually being introduced because Steam got too big in EA's eyes. Now, both enemies are fighting together, against the new kid on the block. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, right? ^_^ Well, well.

 

Ask the frogs about how they feel when their pool gets moved. Now, if frogs had a PR department, they would promote that pool moving is the worst thing to happen. Means after they've occupied their own of course. Surprise. Really?

 

I'm not a fan of any of those pools. However, Win8 allows for normal software to be sold normally, in the ways we already know. So if there's a dev using this or that store or his own website, he can still sell stuff like that. On the more open Win7, in shop terms, the Games for Windows stuff already offered a platform too. Some picked it, others not. This may also happen in Win8. Not?

 

And, seriously, when the OEM PCs roll out with Win8 (which they do) and if neither Steam nor Origin allows for running on Win8 systems, do we expect people to move to another OS or isn't it more likely that the customer support gets hammered with requests? While I applaud to some Linux plans, I think they currently only serve the purpose of threatening the other frog, entering the pool.

 

By the way, I wouldn't communicate any of those Platforms like Steam or Origin to be focused on fair agreements or customer rights. So it's no good vs. bad. The DRM methods, activation limits, always online singleplayer and problems with used software happen right there. And they happen in a way that consumer protection authorities or the EU already forced them to change some aspects. But that's a large side topic, agreed.

Microsoft has too much incentive to lock game producers into an Apple store style market, and developers have little to gain by that except having a giant company with its own agenda meddling if not now, then later, in decisions that the companies prefer to make on their own.

 

Not everyone is happy with what might essentially be a rebadged games for windows live either, especially given how sucky the first iteration was.

 

And really, as a company, would you willingly step into the same trap Apple set for the music companies, or Amazon set for the publishing industry? Steam may be a walled garden, but you enter it willingly, and there other choices.

 

Microsoft, as the os designer will have the power of removing choice, eventually.

Microsoft, as the os designer will have the power of removing choice, eventually.

True, especially when looking how governments have to enforce such simple things like a browser selection. Just to avoid that the one monopoly on the OS sets up the next one. The role of a mergers commission in a nutshell.

 

Steam may be a walled garden, but you enter it willingly, and there other choices.

Good example. Of a reception. Same goes for the OS you are using, right? A free choice.

 

Well, maybe not that much. One quickly sees how flawed any 'willingly' choice may be when there are certain standards which allow certain games and apps to run and others not. By this, you may have no other option then 'willingly' joining the club.

 

So now we have two platforms, collecting customers and devs and sometimes having trouble when the same software is sold outside of that system. Is the choice still 'willingly' for you, when there's a hot game only being sold on Steam? The same for Origin. Still a free choice or just one you can't avoid unless you want to miss that game or app?

 

The dev side may look the same. Not that willingly if you fear that your profits go down when not selling your soft over there as the platforms itself handle promotion on a completely different level and budget. So whoever tries to rival them has to rival that level. Duopoly. Accept their terms or hope to be a very very lucky indie dev.

 

That willingly phrase is too easy, Devon. I see you point and I also see MS perhaps just using the same tricks as the other two 'frogs'. I couldn't tell which one was better, hence my notion to question if the bad press on any Win8 store concept is more than just a PR setup from the competition.

Actually, some of them are, and Valve/steam is even making preparations to go onto the linux platform. In other news....

 

When developers like Oracle, SAP, Symantec, CA, VMware, Adobe Systems and Intuit compain that Windows 8 is going to be locked down then I'll take notice.

 

No developer is compelled to use Microsoft's walled -garden. They can distribute their products through other channels. Their real complaint is that they'd like the commercial benefits of Microsoft's walled-garden without paying for them.

Well the current situation is that steam is not close to being a monopoly. It may be a preferred venue for some releases, but producers still have the option to self release and continue to do so. They can also resort to a number of eager up and comers many of whom would love to steal steams thunder such as GoG, Impulse, GameFly, Gamersgate and others.

 

If windows locks you in, who else is there to go to? It's not as if Microsoft is not well known for copying success and then locking out competition and eating their lunch. They might be outwardly conciliatory right now, but would you really be surprised one day to see the message "Microsoft update has detected and disabled unauthorized software on your computer. Please read Eula of doom at......"

 

Jailbreaking windows..........

 

Steam would not be surprised at all, and they are leading the charge to have another option if Microsoft gets too big for its underwear...... Again. Good for Linux, I suppose.

Are you following a very fictional scenario or some real threat, Devon? Just asking because the only platforms I know which already locked out customers are.. Steam and Origin. May we add Amazon? :Batting Eyelashes:

 

We are spinning around a certain fear. The one where some bad MS evildoer locks out customers. So far, I don't see that happening. Not even with the Windows store or market or whatever it is called. And they don't lock out the competition. In fact, if they tried, the same as on the browser selection may happen.

 

As repeated ever so often. Win8 does allow for software coming from outside their shop. And there isn't a single indication or statement which explains future plans to change that. So where's your fear actually coming from? Any why is it so focused on MS instead of looking closer on the other.. frogs?

 

Besides. Even the Steam folks know that you can't just port games one to one to Linux. And even the Steam folks will move to where the market is. Now where is PC gaming, their main focus, happening? Windows PCs.

 

I also don't see the casual gamers and PC users moving anywhere closer to Linux. So MS is either shaking in fear about the 'we will move to Linux' speech or they see it as the thing it is. A PR stunt in the first place.

It's not fear, it's simply past practices. Since I have no dog in the fight as a consumer yet, I can simply sit on the sidelines with Win7 and wait to see what happens, because after all, what am I missing? (Popcorn please)

 

As far as Steam locking out customers, many companies do that if they believe they have detected violations, which is again what I mean about past practices. Gfwl will also lock you out, so why would anyone believe that Microsoft doing that as well (with a proprietary windows store) is a fictional (as in unlikely) scenario?

 

In fact I believe it's very likely, and if I was the CEO of a software company, with millions on the line, I would be irresponsible and failing in my duty if I did not consider past history and honor the threat. Better to make plans for the eventuality and be wrong, than sit quietly and have no options available if the worst happens.

 

It's also a signal to Microsoft that they are being watched carefully, and that people do not intend to be rolled over. And maybe you can kill two birds with one stone and open up a neglected market (Linux) and help bring it into the mainstream. This also gives Microsoft something to think about.

 

In the meantime, I am sitting on the fence with no need to make a decision at this point, and the popcorn tastes great.

A seller will be locked out of the Windows Store if it won't pay the charges, just as it would be locked out of any other store, real or virtual.

 

Where's the evidence that anyone will be locked out of Windows 8 and unable to develop and deploy their applications?

Maybe we should start again.

 

Win8 isn't 'Windows Store'. Win8 is a complete OS and that store is one app in there. I've clicked it once, never logged in. I'm still alive. ^_^

 

The concept of that store looks very similar to the already existing models. By this, I couldn't tell which one is worse. I try not to click any of them.

 

'It's also a signal to Microsoft'. Ok, give me some of that popcorn, please. ^_^

Maybe we should start again.

 

Win8 isn't 'Windows Store'. Win8 is a complete OS and that store is one app in there. I've clicked it once, never logged in. I'm still alive. ^_^

 

The concept of that store looks very similar to the already existing models. By this, I couldn't tell which one is worse. I try not to click any of them.

 

'It's also a signal to Microsoft'. Ok, give me some of that popcorn, please. ^_^

 

Win8 is too new to have the clout to make the store a must-go-to yet. Which does not mean they don't have Apple Store ambitions. They can't succeed in filling the store all by themselves, and they need developers to jump on the bandwagon. On the desktop market however, many developers are........ Wary.

 

In the end, I think Microsoft's whole windows strategy is built around that store.

 

http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/windows-8-good-for-gamers-but-what-about-developers

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/378666/the-battle-between-windows-8-and-computer-game-developers/

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/180193/Windows_8_arrives_amid_serious_concerns_from_PC_game_devs.php#.UKPEzOi9KSO

In the end, I think Microsoft's whole windows strategy is built around that store.

 

Yes this is the way I see it as well. Any developer wanting to be licensed to use DirectX 11.1 will be forced into a new heavy set of MS rules.

 

If a developers wishes to stick with DirectX 11 then they can still launch new games outside those rules but this means being stuck in old technology and not moving forward.

 

This sounds familiar as we are still using FSX (6 year old software) and MS Flight was 100% MS Controlled environment.

 

Welcome to the new 'Walled Garden'

Still scratching my head over happy Apple, Android, Steam, Origin, Amazon and whatever users being very concerned about MS and their wish to join the list of fancy market places. :huh:

 

I mean I like the sceptical approach, but you guys are aware that it should have taken place over ten years back, yes? We already have people sleeping under bridges. Not because they are poor and have no home, but because they really want to have their latest gadget, allowing access to the most limited market there is.

 

How's that called by the way? Idiocracy? :rolleyes: Perhaps it's time to start hating the game, not a single player. Wait, there's an app for that. ^_^