but you guys are aware that it should have taken place over ten years back, yes?

 

It was 10 years ago that people were choosing Windows based computing over Apple due to the larger variety of developers and software available in the Windows Environment, as well as the open market. Even though downloading is new, Apple has always been a closed market as they have always licensed/authorised resellers etc. and never allowed other PC Manufacturers to built an Apple machine. Windows was different then that and this is why we chose it over Apple.

 

 

Traditionally I have been an AutoCAD user and MSFS user. Both software packages that are hardware heavy, PC is perfect because I can custom build a machine, pick an O/S and tinker with settings to get things perfect. I always had options.

 

I don't want this environment to change as we move forward. I don't want AutoDesk to be limited in their development. I don't want GTA 5 to be forced into Windows Store because that is the only way for Rockstar to be licensed to use DirectX 11.1

 

The PC always was and always should always be a Personal Computer....My choice what I do with it and keep the corporate monopolies out of it.

 

Worst case scenario would be for developers to just abandon the PC and just focus on consoles from now on, they are mostly there already.

The PC always was and always should always be a Personal Computer....My choice what I do with it and keep the corporate monopolies out of it.

I would love to explain a few things in detail, Matthew. But I've actually spilled my coffee over that one.

 

Say, do you really believe that your current Win7 setup is free of 'corporate monopolies' and offers that friendly and open place you seem to describe? If that's the case, I would understand your concerns much better. At the same time, I wouldn't know where to start. :mellow:

 

By the way, some ten years back, that's when Steam started. While I truly believe that most people just see it as a comfortable way to sell/buy software, it was and still is much more than that. Especially in terms of consumer rights, or lack of. And other platforms followed, as we know. Hence my surprise on the, now, arising concerns. They are valid, but.. look at what year we have. No offence. :Peace:

I would love to explain a few things in detail, Matthew. But I've actually spilled my coffee over that one.

 

LOL - Sorry bout that :lol:

 

yea it is more 20 years ago that we were free of the monopolies, MS Started anti-trust a long time ago and still continue on that path today.

 

I will say my Windows 7 is just a base O/S, From their I do what I want to it, purchase from a variety of vendors outside of the MS loop. I would prefer to keep it that way. I want to pay a developer directly for their work and not have MS clip a ticket as it goes through a Windows Store.

 

The reason why so much software is available on Windows is because countless developers work hard for little in developing all kinds of software. This MSFS community is a perfect example of that. If it wasn't for that open market then companies like ORBX or PMDG may not exist.

 

I will admit the PC was a lot more fun when I purchased my first IBM machine with an 8088 processor. No one had their hands in my pockets back in those days....

 

Cheers

Who really needs to leave Microsoft is Steve Ballmer.

 

Hear, hear, hear him!

 

And there will always be Windows 9, so no need to panic anybody.

 

Cheers,

I like the idealistic viewpoint of yours, Matthew. No doubt about that.

 

Just be aware that there's more to it than having an 'open' or 'closed' market. Shades of grey. The, in your view, open one for example is ruled by a bunch of payment services and their shares on every sale. And this isn't the only level where somebody tries to get between the actual developer and his customer. A lucrative place to be and even more so when both sides depend on you.

 

And while I truly adore some companies in that little simulator niche of ours, we shouldn't forget that some folks already grew some attitude which automatically collides with plans of other market participants at times. Just to explain why some big names may not have liked any MS concept while smaller devs could have been happy.

 

More on the Windows case. You may want to explore all those trademarks, copyrights, patents and de-facto standards surrounding your PC. All of them incorporate at least one company having a huge interest in keeping that position, no matter what. And that's not a thing which came up yesterday or the day before. ^_^

How is Microsoft going to make any developers use the Windows Store any more than apple can. Given that developers will still be able to create and distribute their applications in the traditional way? Those developers that use the Store will do so because they chose to.

 

Microft has no intention of locking-down general development. Common sense indicatates that it's noot going to interfere with developers of accounting, business, CAD, engineering, financial, graphical, scientific, etc etc software.

How is Microsoft going to make any developers use the Windows Store any more than apple can.

 

It is just that right now it is happening with Gaming developers. This is something new. Once you start down that road where does it end.

 

I am not saying the sky is falling, I am just saying as a traditional PC user it would be a shame to lose what we have because MS wants to do what Apple or Android has done. The potential is there.

 

Like has been said....Windows 8 hasn't been created out of a demand in the market, it is a new direction put upon us. But we are a free market and have a choice to follow or not.

 

Just to explain why some big names may not have liked any MS concept while smaller devs could have been happy.

 

I could see where smaller developers may gain from a Windows Store by having larger exposure in one place.....but I still want options to be able to install software from an outside vendor (if it ever came down to that).

 

More on the Windows case. You may want to explore all those trademarks, copyrights, patents and de-facto standards surrounding your PC. All of them incorporate at least one company having a huge interest in keeping that position, no matter what. And that's not a thing which came up yesterday or the day before.

 

True...because Rome wasn't built in one day

 

It is just that right now it is happening with Gaming developers.

 

How is Microsoft forcing gaming developers into this right now?

How is Microsoft forcing gaming developers into this right now?

 

Cases have already been mentioned on this thread. Two main ones are Minecraft and Activision/Blizzard. Also Steam Distribution (which I use heavily).

 

I am a Warcaft and Starcraft user as well and like Minecraft so this does effect a lot of my Windows usage.

I like the idealistic viewpoint of yours, Matthew. No doubt about that.

 

Just be aware that there's more to it than having an 'open' or 'closed' market. Shades of grey. The, in your view, open one for example is ruled by a bunch of payment services and their shares on every sale. And this isn't the only level where somebody tries to get between the actual developer and his customer. A lucrative place to be and even more so when both sides depend on you.

 

And while I truly adore some companies in that little simulator niche of ours, we shouldn't forget that some folks already grew some attitude which automatically collides with plans of other market participants at times. Just to explain why some big names may not have liked any MS concept while smaller devs could have been happy.

 

More on the Windows case. You may want to explore all those trademarks, copyrights, patents and de-facto standards surrounding your PC. All of them incorporate at least one company having a huge interest in keeping that position, no matter what. And that's not a thing which came up yesterday or the day before. ^_^

 

The fact that things aren't great does not mean that worse is better. A slide in the wrong direction is still in the wrong direction even if its been going on for a while. To me, the windows store feels like a unwelcome tipping point because what I accept on a tablet is not at all what I expect from a PC (in the same way that the numerous commercials I accept on television is not something I welcome in a theater)

 

They are two different environments, and trying to treat them the same may be great for Microsoft's bottom line (if they can pull it off) but not nearly so hot for everyone else. The software companies complaining about these moves have their own interests, and are certainly not angels, but if I have to choose between Gabe Newell and other well known developers and Microsoft with its well known tight-lipped and arbitrary nature ala' Flight! I know who I will gravitate towards.

Cases have already been mentioned on this thread. Two main ones are Minecraft and Activision/Blizzard. Also Steam Distribution (which I use heavily).

 

I repeat: how is Microsoft forcing those companies to do anything?

I repeat: how is Microsoft forcing those companies to do anything?

 

Through licencing agreements with using DirectX 11.1. With new releases of DirectX comes new terms and conditions.....You know, The Lawyers side of things :rolleyes:

 

When there is a DirectX 12, then their will be another set of terms and conditions. DirectX is the dangling carrot

Through licencing agreements with using DirectX 11.1.

 

Where's the evidence for that?

 

The following functionality has been added in Direct3D 11.1, which is included with Windows 8, Windows RT, and Windows Server 2012.

 

http://msdn.microsof...2(v=vs.85).aspx

I don't think the question is microsoft good/bad (and getting back on topic, how dos this personnel change affect that?). The reality seems to be that the home user market is rapidly moving from desktop "pc" systems to tablets/hydrid phone/convertable notebook-tablet. Intel has the same problem as microsoft. While businesses will continue with the desktop model at least for now (and I still see embedded systems runing OS/2) I suspect Win8 marks the beginning of the end of dsktop "pc" software as we know it.

 

scott s.

.

I don't think the question is microsoft good/bad (and getting back on topic, how dos this personnel change affect that?). The reality seems to be that the home user market is rapidly moving from desktop "pc" systems to tablets/hydrid phone/convertable notebook-tablet. Intel has the same problem as microsoft. While businesses will continue with the desktop model at least for now (and I still see embedded systems runing OS/2) I suspect Win8 marks the beginning of the end of dsktop "pc" software as we know it.

 

scott s.

.

 

One thing about the Desktop PC is it was always a niche market anyway Look back to the 1980's and into the 1990's, it was a small niche market of users. It did mainstream for a while but mainstream has now moved onto the Tablets and Smartphones (because they can do on those what they were doing on PCs with social media)

 

So what is happening is Desktop PC is just remaining the same demographic that has supported it since the PCs first came out.