I don't think the question is microsoft good/bad (and getting back on topic, how dos this personnel change affect that?). The reality seems to be that the home user market is rapidly moving from desktop "pc" systems to tablets/hydrid phone/convertable notebook-tablet. Intel has the same problem as microsoft. While businesses will continue with the desktop model at least for now (and I still see embedded systems runing OS/2) I suspect Win8 marks the beginning of the end of dsktop "pc" software as we know it.

 

scott s.

.

 

*Siri voice*

 

"Tying it all together"

 

http://www.zdnet.com/for-windows-developers-sinofskys-legacy-is-fragmentation-and-frustration-7000007320/

I am not saying the sky is falling, I am just saying as a traditional PC user it would be a shame to lose what we have because MS wants to do what Apple or Android Google has done. The potential is there.

And yet you are planning to buy an Android device if I got that right. Thanks for the support. :rolleyes:

 

At the same time, you folks seem like happy users of Steam and Origin titles, the iTunes store and other things right on your PC. 'Willingly'. And when MS comes up and wants to establish its own market place, the alarm bells go off. Ok. :mellow:

 

Well.. I guess you two already feel the confusion this thinking leaves on the reader's side. The drug addict having problems with the new needle but never questioning his actual addiction. As far as I can tell, a solution looks different.

 

 

By now, it should be clear that the Windows Store is just one app in a fully functional OS. Nobody has to use it, has to break it and can still install software for Win8 or older stuff. Wait, you already knew that, didn't you?

 

Cases have already been mentioned on this thread. Two main ones are Minecraft and Activision/Blizzard. Also Steam Distribution (which I use heavily).

 

I am a Warcaft and Starcraft user as well and like Minecraft so this does effect a lot of my Windows usage.

Matthew, what mgh may be trying to tell you is that all of your examples will run just fine on Win8. You can try, if you like. And if you install Photoshop, AutoCAD or any other of your purchases, it will also work.

 

Now please don't tell me that this surprises you. :unsure:

And yet you are planning to buy an Android device if I got that right. Thanks for the support.

 

I would buy a Samsung Galaxy s3 but they are still over $1000 in New Zealand so not worth getting one, but that is the one I would get just for convenience when I am away from my desktop. Next time I am in USA I would get one as they are selling for around $550 right now (and bring it back to NZ). No biggie.

 

Matthew, what mgh may be trying to tell you is that all of your examples will run just fine on Win8. You can try, if you like. And if you install Photoshop, AutoCAD or any other of your purchases, it will also work.

 

Now please don't tell me that this surprises you.

 

What I have been saying from the beginning is this isn't about the past, it is about the potential to where things could lead. I don't want to see the PC Environment put into a 'Walled Garden' like other O/S are now. Simple as that. I like the openness of the PC and always have. Or to quote Markus Persson "stop trying to ruin the PC as an open platform." from when he tried to certify Minecraft for Windows 8.

 

Anyhow....My view is I will always support developers over MS so right now it is their battle and not ours. They are the ones dealing with MS right now. Gaming on PC is already in a decline never mind the certification process these guys are dealing with on top of all that trying to get titles certified for Windows 8.

 

From PC Gamer:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/09/28/notch-microsoft-stop-ruining-pc-open-platform/

 

Cheers

What I have been saying from the beginning is this isn't about the past, it is about the potential to where things could lead. I don't want to see the PC Environment put into a 'Walled Garden' like other O/S are now. Simple as that. I like the openness of the PC and always have. Or to quote Markus Persson "stop trying to ruin the PC as an open platform." from when he tried to certify Minecraft for Windows 8.

 

Can explain why Minecraft (and presumably other games) won't run under Windows 8 unless it's certified?

 

Do you seriously believe that in the future Microsoft will prevent AutoCad, PhotoShop, etc etc even X-Plane from running under Windows.

I dual booted my PC one for Window 7 and other for Window 8. I love the new look of Windows 8, strange at first but you get used to it. But the main problem with Window 8 is the drivers. Windows 8 lags to much even the sound they say on forums that it's the drivers from Nvidia and the EVGA motherboard (I have Nvidia and EVGA motherboard BTW. :rolleyes: ) so I downloaded the newest drivers and it still happends so now I'm waiting for better drivers. Any way Windows 7 will be my number one system for FSX.

Windows has a similar Tick Tock system like Intel for example. XP was good Vista was bad Windows 7 was good windows 8 not so good. So next Windows will probably be good (I hope :lol: ). Anyway for FS lovers just stick to Windows 7 :lol: .

Can explain why Minecraft (and presumably other games) won't run under Windows 8 unless it's certified?

 

Do you seriously believe that in the future Microsoft will prevent AutoCad, PhotoShop, etc etc even X-Plane from running under Windows.

 

I have already said it above - "it is about the potential to where things could lead" - why do you keep asking me to explain that :rolleyes:

 

 

You know it is just a POV is all. I see a different PC environment compared to what it was like over 20 years ago when I first bought a PC. The Personal Computer days are changing and proof is terms like "Walled Garden". 20 years ago that concept never existed, Tomorrow it may become a reality.

 

The only reason for MS to setup a "Walled Garden" is it will increase revenue for MS on work they didn't produce. It is clipping the ticket on other developers in a Windows Store. If that is cool with you then fine. I prefer an open market over that concept for the PC. Just my POV

I have already said it above - "it is about the potential to where things could lead" - why do you keep asking me to explain that :rolleyes:

Good question.

 

Fictional dialogue with Matthew.

Man, I really hate those cheeseburgers. They are full of fat.

Is that the reason why you are eating a doublecheese, Matthew?

Yes. Why?

 

Maybe that explains the confusion. Still no offence.

 

But the main problem with Window 8 is the drivers. Windows 8 lags to much even the sound they say on forums that it's the drivers from Nvidia and the EVGA motherboard (I have Nvidia and EVGA motherboard BTW. :rolleyes: ) so I downloaded the newest drivers and it still happends so now I'm waiting for better drivers. Any way Windows 7 will be my number one system for FSX.

While I double the last part, sticking to Win7, I think the driver stuff shouldn't happen that way. I think Nvidia and Intel (for the mainboard) are already working fine on Win8. Well, as far as I can tell from other folks using a dual boot system.

 

Perhaps ask in the hardware section. I could think of some gurus already having some solutions at hand.

Good question.

 

Fictional dialogue with Matthew.

Man, I really hate those cheeseburgers. They are full of fat.

Is that the reason why you are eating a doublecheese, Matthew?

Yes. Why?

 

Maybe that explains the confusion of mine. Still no offence.

 

LOL :lol:

 

No worries, it is just the Irish in me is all.....Just don't like that term 'Walled Garden' (or the concept)

 

And just because I am looking at buying a Samsung Galaxy s3 doesn't mean I own one, or will get one. I just think they look pretty :ph34r:

I am way too stubborn to spend over $1000 NZD for one though :rolleyes:

 

Right now I use an LG that cost me less then $50 (because I'd rather spend $ on FSX):

This ain't no Smart Phone (but it does have an FM Radio on it) LOL

You should see my phone. Ain't no smartness in that one. But it's waterproof. Since you are a biker too, you surely appreciate a robust hardware.

I've been using Win 8 as my main machine and on my note book (Macbook air via bootcamp) with absolutely no issues, driver or otherwise.

 

Metro has no use for me, so I just skip it and go direct to the Desktop.

 

Works a treat!

For me its fairly simple. Steam and other companies like it are tributaries on a river. They branch off into private spaces that I occasionally visit. Microsoft is floating the potential for damming the whole river at its source, potentially starving steam and others of water, if not now, than in the future.

 

That's a different proposition entirely, with a much broader effect.

 

Certification is just an initial step in a process that I accept (even when seeing it can be capricious and anti-competative) in the always limited tablet world, but don't accept in the heretofore open PC world.

 

An example was given using Xplane and Photoshop. Well, number one, I don't think Xplane has anywhere near the clout of Photoshop, so even if exceptions were available, I don't think Xplane would get one so yes, I think they would probably have to give a percentage to Microsoft to get in the store. Photoshop and others might be able to negotiate, at Microsoft's discretion......

 

Or they too, might look harder at Linux.

 

What's also interesting is this strikes me as nearly the exact same type of deal so many were cheering the developers for not accepting for Microsoft flight. Go figure.

 

Finally, I suspect if they go to far down this path, the EU might have something to say about it, based on some of the same qualms I have.

.......................

 

By the way, some ten years back, that's when Steam started. While I truly believe that most people just see it as a comfortable way to sell/buy software, it was and still is much more than that. Especially in terms of consumer rights, or lack of. And other platforms followed, as we know. Hence my surprise on the, now, arising concerns. They are valid, but.. look at what year we have. No offence. :Peace:

I made noise about that, many people did at the time. Sadly it didn't help, and yup nowadays many are following the STEAM model, not surprised that MS has been exploring in that direction too.

But that path does have its shortcomings and it does exclude a large part of the market who do not wish to participate.

I guess the usage Bryan describes will be the one for most folks already running the system on a non-touch device. Makes sense. If I had it on the desktop sys, I would never see the Win 8 UI (means the former Metro thingy).

 

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the fears and negative articles in the current tech press just repeat a spin which was initiated by those which fear that MS takes a bit of their shares. Frogs fighting over the pool. Frogs running PR departments.

 

Finally, Momtchil seems like a guy being aware that the whole 'closed market' architecture started a decade ago and, since then, was allowed to grow. Steam once spoiled EA, so Origin came up for example. Frogs, again, fighting. MS will be just another one and I really miss the people wondering about that silly game. :lol:

 

Me does not like to pay a ton of folks in between the dev and me (customer) and I'm still aware enough to find my way around without a shop system telling me what to buy or, worse, what not.

I guess the usage Bryan describes will be the one for most folks already running the system on a non-touch device. Makes sense. If I had it on the desktop sys, I would never see the Win 8 UI (means the former Metro thingy).

 

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the fears and negative articles in the current tech press just repeat a spin which was initiated by those which fear that MS takes a bit of their shares. Frogs fighting over the pool. Frogs running PR departments.

 

Finally, Momtchil seems like a guy being aware that the whole 'closed market' architecture started a decade ago and, since then, was allowed to grow. Steam once spoiled EA, so Origin came up for example. Frogs, again, fighting. MS will be just another one and I really miss the people wondering about that silly game. :lol:

 

Me does not like to pay a ton of folks in between the dev and me (customer) and I'm still aware enough to find my way around without a shop system telling me what to buy or, worse, what not.

 

To me its a matter of degree. Frogs may fight over Lilly pads, but Microsoft ala, Apple, is making moves to own the whole pond. I see a very large differance there. I can avoid any individual Lilly pad at my own discretion, but where do I go when the pond is surrounded by a wall and I need water?

 

Another pond? Like Linux?

An example was given using Xplane and Photoshop. Well, number one, I don't think Xplane has anywhere near the clout of Photoshop, so even if exceptions were available, I don't think Xplane would get one so yes, I think they would probably have to give a percentage to Microsoft to get in the store. Photoshop and others might be able to negotiate, at Microsoft's discretion......

[My emphasis]

 

There seems to be confusion between Windows 8 and the Windows Store. As I said previously, any store keeper has the right to decide the quality, and how much to charge for the items stocked and that's true for the corner store as much as for an online store.

 

Where is the evidence to suggest that in future Microsoft would (or even could) prevent software developers from selling their their applications directly and not through to store. Don't you think that the competition authorities world-wide would have some infuence on that - not to mention the existence of alternative operating systems?