So, if I'm thinking of building a new sim-rig I should wait for this. Or?

Hard to answer your question really. Of course, there are no benchmarks yet and who knows what the cost will be. Personally, I'm waiting.

So, if I'm thinking of building a new sim-rig I should wait for this. Or?

 

Haswell's known improvements (for FSX users) are:

• '5-15%' improvement in performance clock-for-clock over Ivy Bridge
  
• Improved BCLK tuning for enhanced overclocking control
  

An improvement we HOPE happens is:

• Improved thermal performance--this is just hope at this point.
  

Outside of that, haven't heard anything solid. I'm waiting for Haswell and will jump on board unless there are troubles we won't know about until it debuts.

Ok thx for the advice. I think my new rig is on hold then. Bet those %'s come in handy. Even if the thermal performance is not improved, maybe we dont need to squeeze 5ghz out of it for butter-fps.

If Haswell has 15% IPC improvement over Ivy Bridge and same or better OCing as SB, I will hop aboard right at release. I'd only need to swap my mobo and CPU...

 

Going from my SB @ 4.9 to a Haswell @ 4.9, I would be looking for around a 20-22% increase in CPU limited scenarios... I personally think it is worth it :smile:

Haswell's known improvements (for FSX users) are:

• '5-15%' improvement in performance clock-for-clock over Ivy Bridge
  
• Improved BCLK tuning for enhanced overclocking control
  

An improvement we HOPE happens is:

• Improved thermal performance--this is just hope at this point.
  

Outside of that, haven't heard anything solid. I'm waiting for Haswell and will jump on board unless there are troubles we won't know about until it debuts.

 

What are the known improvements based off of?

I read about it in at least one article after IDF 2012 when Intel made some announcements about Haswell. No, can't testify to its accuracy, though the source sounded convincing to me.

 

AnandTech's article here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/intels-haswell-architecture is a good overview of 4th generation core Haswell and I think there are enough improvements in the new microarchitecture to imagine it will be at least a 5% improvement at the very lowest end. He hints in his article that Haswell will be more tolerant of high frequency DRAM which can't hurt. And w/ Intel marketing to enthusiasts by improving overclocking flexibility implies at some level it's worth the effort. It is truly wait and see, particularly w/ regard to FSX. My guess is 5-15% improvement sounds quite probable.

If Haswell has 15% IPC improvement over Ivy Bridge and same or better OCing as SB, I will hop aboard right at release. I'd only need to swap my mobo and CPU...

 

Going from my SB @ 4.9 to a Haswell @ 4.9, I would be looking for around a 20-22% increase in CPU limited scenarios... I personally think it is worth it :smile:

 

If your calculations are correct Ben I will definitely be upgrading.

If your calculations are correct Ben I will definitely be upgrading.

 

I sure hope they are! :biggrin:

Some say Haswell will be the last seperate CPU from Intel. Broadwell is - according to rumours - gonna be fixed to a motherboard an totally irreplaceable.

Some say Haswell will be the last seperate CPU from Intel. Broadwell is - according to rumours - gonna be fixed to a motherboard an totally irreplaceable.

 

Intel has stated that's a rumor. Will be socketed CPUs for quite awhile.

Randy is right:

 

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/intel_says_company_committed_sockets2012

I read about it in at least one article after IDF 2012 when Intel made some announcements about Haswell. No, can't testify to its accuracy, though the source sounded convincing to me.

 

AnandTech's article here: http://www.anandtech...ll-architecture is a good overview of 4th generation core Haswell and I think there are enough improvements in the new microarchitecture to imagine it will be at least a 5% improvement at the very lowest end. He hints in his article that Haswell will be more tolerant of high frequency DRAM which can't hurt. And w/ Intel marketing to enthusiasts by improving overclocking flexibility implies at some level it's worth the effort. It is truly wait and see, particularly w/ regard to FSX. My guess is 5-15% improvement sounds quite probable.

 

Thanks for the link, interesting read. The only thing that bothers me (if it can be considered at bother) is "Haswell, on paper, appears to do everything Intel needs to evolve the mobile PC platform" (from the final section of posted article). "Evolving to the mobile PC platform means good/better power consumption/management. There are a lot of power-consumption improvements but that really does not help us in the FSX arena. If anyone here is like me a lot of the power saving features get turned off when overclocking.

Thanks for the link, interesting read. The only thing that bothers me (if it can be considered at bother) is "Haswell, on paper, appears to do everything Intel needs to evolve the mobile PC platform" (from the final section of posted article). "Evolving to the mobile PC platform means good/better power consumption/management. There are a lot of power-consumption improvements but that really does not help us in the FSX arena. If anyone here is like me a lot of the power saving features get turned off when overclocking.

 

Sure, that's where it's all going, but still, you have to pay these comments some due respect as well:

 

The Haswell micro-architecture focuses primarily on widening the execution engine that has been with us, moderately changed, for the past several years. Increasing data structures and buffers inside the processor helps to feed the beast, as does a tremendous increase in cache bandwidth. Support for new instructions in AVX2 via Intel's TSX should also pave the way for some big performance gains going forward. Power consumption is also a serious target for Haswell given that it must improve performance without dramatically increasing TDP.

 

There is enough in these comments, combined w/ improved access to more granular overclocking controls, to give us a sense that there could indeed be more than just 'good/better power consumption/management...' Despite the fact the trend is towards portables, there could still be a significant enough market for 'enthusiast' (entertainment & science/business) for high end raw performance, so it makes sense they would do the best they could for both domains. I think the article suggests this indeed is what Intel has achieved w/ Haswell.

 

Even so, it's of course a wait and see affair since some key issues we really don't know about yet, firstly, overclockability, and next, just how much impact will the new microarchitecture have on FSX performance/smoothness. Won't be too long before we find out ;o)