I've been watching and reading this thread with interest, and, as one of those developers who have had "issues" with my complete and utter lack of diplomacy, tact and "salesmanship" I thought it was a good moment to chime in on some things....

 

1) we do this because we love to do it. Not because it makes us rich. It doesn't. Not even CLOSE.

2) I am NOT a salesman. I am a maker of what I think are quality addons for FSX and P3D. This means, forgive me but, is that I am NOT a marketing genius, If I were, I would certainly not be in this business.

3) This is a small, niche business for most of us devs... This mean it's small. VERY small. And that means we cannot afford advertising, marketing people, sales reps etc.

4) We have tried both methods... announcing our product WAY ahead of time... we got dissed for not delivering in the time some thought we should. When we responded (it didn't really matter about HOW we responded) we were told that we were not nice people... When we kept it a secret, when we released, almost no one KNEW about it...

 

The choices we have to make are myriad and difficult. It's not easy to do this as the basic tech isn't evolving but what we have to do with it is. In a BIG way. As one of those devs who are constantly pushing the limits of what is possible in FSX/P3D, we are smart to keep our cards close to our chests. Others have and will ALWAYS try and "borrow" our ideas. Of course. It's obvious that we will do it too... Reverse engineering is a constant.

 

That said, though I, personally, have been "attacked" for my lack of the above mentioned tact, diplomacy and salesmanship, I totally stand by our customer support AFTER you've bought the product. I do not, in any way, see why we should provide support or give out information on products that are not yet released just because someone asks. However, that should and does not mean that you, the potential client(s) have to stop asking. Feel free. BUT... if you don't get an answer at all, an answer you don't like or one that you do, don't get upset. We, as devs are BUSY. This fills a HUGE chunk of our free time and wasting it (yes... wasting it) doing marketing is a loss for us. It means our product will be less cool, interesting and work not quite as nicely.

 

Your choice is to give us your money when/if our product(s) pleases you. It is, however OUR choice as to whether or not we TAKE your money.... and I have returned "difficult" clients money before and will almost certainly do so again...

 

Demanding anything is a mistake. You demand something in a restaurant or, from, say, your wife or someone close to you... what happens? Oh yah... they will get ######. We are humans too. ASKING nicely works wonders. Demanding doesn't . Sugar and carrots or the stick....

4) We have tried both methods... announcing our product WAY ahead of time... we got dissed for not delivering in the time some thought we should. When we responded (it didn't really matter about HOW we responded) we were told that we were not nice people... When we kept it a secret, when we released, almost no one KNEW about it...

 

Don't tell anybody ANYTHING until the product is finished. Then announce that it will be released in 3 months. Release new teaser info and screen shots every couple of weeks. No progress reports, if only because there isn't any progress to report.

 

Do a "beta release" of the finished product to select individuals under NDA as soon as you think it's finished. They'll find all sorts of bugs for you to fix, especially installation problems.

 

By the time the 3 months is up, you've debugged the installation process, maybe fixed a couple of bugs, and generated lots of interest. If you're already using good beta testers, you shouldn't need to do anything but release teasers for 3 months. And let the beta testers get in a bit more testing if necessary. You can be working on your next project during that time.

 

Hook

Nice of you to chip in, and by that you have shown that Milviz isn't as hopeless at marketing as you think you are! Besides, you're one of the best in the biz. I like the updates you provide on your forums, but best of all, your products speak for themselves and have made Milviz a reputable brand in this tiny niche business of FS addons.

 

Marketing is part of everything you do, not just about advertising and making the sale. It doesn't take a genious, just someone with average IQ and an interest in the well being of other people with a similar passion and interest.

 

Don't tell anybody ANYTHING until the product is finished. Then announce that it will be released in 3 months. Release new teaser info and screen shots every couple of weeks. No progress reports, if only because there isn't any progress to report.

 

Do a "beta release" of the finished product to select individuals under NDA as soon as you think it's finished. They'll find all sorts of bugs for you to fix, especially installation problems.

 

By the time the 3 months is up, you've debugged the installation process, maybe fixed a couple of bugs, and generated lots of interest. If you're already using good beta testers, you shouldn't need to do anything but release teasers for 3 months. And let the beta testers get in a bit more testing if necessary. You can be working on your next project during that time.

 

Hook

 

Totally agree with Hook. You are d a m n e d if you do and d a m n e d if you don't in this market. Play it close to the vest and release nothing until it's been done and tested.

 

Hate to say it but this also seems to apply to freeware - I don't recall the developer but a few years back he released a freeware model, IIRC it was an AT-6 and, for freeware, was quite exceptional. A few users REALLY got on his case because the placement of the rivets wasn't perfectly accurate. The exchanges got really nasty. Ultimately the developer got really ticked and removed the model and quit making any add -ons. I imagine he's a happy camper nowadays.

 

Vic

I think that's about spot on Ernie. If you say you're developing features B & G and then find you can't get G to work well enough they'll damn you for not doing it and if you say you're not going to include D & F but find F works well so include it they'll complain that you didn't spec that in the first place :lol: If finding out G won't work or developing F takes a bit longer they'll criticise you for taking too long to release it :blink: . Release it with glitches and they'll harangue you for not testing thoroughly :( .

 

Good points.

 

What you plan to produce and what ends up being the final product can differ.

 

There can be features you significant put work into , then drop for various reasons. Or features than you planned to include but then realize further on in development are no longer worth the effort and drop.

 

And then there are also the features not originally planned but get added along the way.

 

Trying to keep a lid on scope or mission creep is hard enough within the dev team, but imagine trying to do it with almost constant input from your customers ?

 

Regards.

Ernie.

Hate to say it but this also seems to apply to freeware - I don't recall the developer but a few years back he released a freeware model, IIRC it was an AT-6 and, for freeware, was quite exceptional. A few users REALLY got on his case because the placement of the rivets wasn't perfectly accurate. The exchanges got really nasty. Ultimately the developer got really ticked and removed the model and quit making any add -ons. I imagine he's a happy camper nowadays.

 

True. Several years ago I decided to share my freeware aircraft for FS9. I wasn't then into gauge design so I used the mosst appropriate default gauges I could find. The only responses I got were complaining about the gauges. Ever since then my add-ons remain on my pc.