Im getting the sense that devs dont release too much information because they want to protect thier product from being copied. Or at least an idea. Dont want to reveal too much.

 

What I dont understand is why the heck would you develop an aircraft for example when company B and company C is making the same one! Thats ridiculous. A320 and 737 comes to mind.

 

If I want to fly the MD-11 , well look PMDG is the only one with a good md-11. Im probably going to buy that one. If there is 3 others, well then your marketing share is split in 4. Why not make your product unique.

Why wouldnt have the devs done one 320 and another dev does the 340. Makes way more sense. That way you can give updates and information, because no one is developing the same!

 

IMHO

 

:rolleyes:

What I dont understand is why the heck would you develop an aircraft for example when company B and company C is making the same one! Thats ridiculous. A320 and 737 comes to mind.

 

If I want to fly the MD-11 , well look PMDG is the only one with a good md-11. Im probably going to buy that one. If there is 3 others, well then your marketing share is split in 4. Why not make your product unique.

Why wouldnt have the devs done one 320 and another dev does the 340. Makes way more sense. That way you can give updates and information, because no one is developing the same!

Yes. It was too bad for iFly that the PMDG B737 was released not long afterwards. The A320 competition is more justified, though. I believe the two main competitors are currently Aerosoft and Flight Sim Labs. Both have different beliefs, with Aerosoft emphasizing entertainment-based, more-casual models with excellent visuals, and FSL emphasizing maximum realism. This difference in beliefs and target audiences, coupled with the fact that neither of these developers has developed a very high-quality glass cockpit jetliner yet (i.e., have not yet fully earned their reputation like PMDG has), justifies the competition for me. Now, I don't understand why a certain developer known for its visuals is slowly developing an alternate version of the B777 when PMDG is about to release its. . . .

One of the airbus competitors (cant remember which one and which forum) said they would not reveal pictures and videos because the work or ideas might not get copied. While they may have slightly different paths, they still watch each other. This to me in a very small niche market doesnt make sense with that kind of fear of someone copying your idea. This is why I said they should have gone with a different version airbus.

Has nothing to do with crooks or bad products. Some customers just aren't worth having period.

 

So true, especially the ones that come in with the attitude they are always right, escorted three of those out of the store last week. Gotta love working in retail management during the holidays, LOL.

Comparing developing complex aircraft addons with waiting for your restaurant meal has got to be some of the most ridiculous expectations I've ever heard. With a restaurant, the owner, the chef, and even the customers have some very clear idea how long it takes to make a certain meal. You order a steak, well yeah, it takes maybe 10 minutes to cook, then 10 minutes to rest. Sometimes, the restaurant is busy, so it may take longer, but there is pretty much nothing that's an unknown to the business (besides the number of customers....but yet, the business still has a pretty good idea). The restaurant runs out of salt, it buys more salt. Pretty simple stuff. (They get crazy customers too)

 

Developing software for FSX is NOT like cooking a meal. There are a lot of unknowns. Sometimes, as Aerosoft has found out the hard way, some bugs will come out that you have no idea what it will take to fix. If you have done any kind of advanced development on an antiquated platform (yes, FSX is old) you will find that sometimes you will have to hack the hell out of it to make something work.

 

FSX may impose some limitation that cannot be overcome. Having to write your own complete sound module because FSX's implementation of turboprops is off isn't exactly something that adds a day or two to a project. That could take weeks or even months.

 

Engineering complex software takes time, especially when there are a lot of unknowns. You will notice that sofware that gets pushed to just meet some deadline usually have tons of problems. In the software world, LOTS of deadlines are missed. The 777 is not just a bigger 737. Many different systems need to be modelled and programmed. The A320 is an incredibly complex aircraft too. Do you think Microsoft put some code in there to handle Normal Law vs Alternate Law? I highly doubt it. This isn't simple folks!

 

I wouldn't even compare it to normal game development. You really do have a good idea what it takes to build Call of Duty 5 once you've done COD4. It's worth noting that two separate companies do that development since they usually take around 2 years to produce.

 

To me, the only customers who are owed anything are those that have actually paid for something. I'm looking at you Captain Sim. I'd be pretty upset if they took 13 months to finally come out with 1.0 when .9 was released months ago. (I won't be too hard on them since I love their 737-200....a much simpler aircraft than a T7 or an Airbus btw)

 

Also depriving youself of some of the best products out there simply because the devs keep quiet I find ridiculous too. It's your right to do so, of course....but your loss.

There's quite an important reason why some, not all, developers feel they have to announce a project: It is to let other developers know what they are up to in order not to divide up very limited slices of cake on a similar product which can often wipe out each other's sales and compromise the potential to recoup time, effort and research. This is not in order to artificially create an exclusive market but a genuine attempt to avoid one developer spending (in a known example to us) a huge amount of time on a niche product only to find that three months before release someone else has beaten them to it. In today's FS market which is ever shrinking, (yet there are more developers than ever), the risks involved in a project that can take two years or more are quite high.

 

Another factor is that customers often email developers in large numbers asking what the "next" project will be and if there is no announcement at all, it is assumed the developer is in trouble or going out of business, or the customers get quite agitated that no announcement has been made.

 

A third factor is that customers are becoming used to extremely sophisticated products which nowadays take twice or three times longer than in the past to develop, yet prices have actually dropped in real terms compared with say eight years ago, and the increased sophistication means a lot more testing and a lot more that can go wrong, hence some developers are in a difficult position balancing announcements with often expressed impatience if there are no announcements at all.

 

I don't think it is good practice to announce something as "imminent" or "very soon", or to attract orders when it is clear that the project is nowhere near completion, so most reasonable developers simply say what is coming next and leave it at that. I don't think in most cases it is an attempt to wind up the customer or frustrate them.

 

Regarding the comparison with a restaurant: When you enter a restaurant and are seated, then order, you are entering into a contract that is binding on both sides and you expect the meal for which you have contracted and promised payment to arrive in a reasonable time.

 

If a developer announces a project, there is no agreement and no obligation on either side. The developer therefore owes the potential customer nothing but it might be in the interests of both parties to keep a potential customer informed. Only where the developer (rather unwisely in my view) attracts advanced orders is there an obligation, and perhaps this is where bad reputations are made.

Maybe they don't give updates simply because they know that when they dangle a carrot that a lot of people tend to go over-the-top biting at. If nothing else, some customers can become downright annoying. In fact, some of the forums catering to highly anticipated products, have, on occasion struck me as a little bit creepy and cult-like. The way some people deal with the imminent release of a new flight sim airplane, you might think that you were reading about some historical event in the making or something of similar signifigance.

There are more arrogant potential buyers!

Maybe, but they PAY for the privilege. The very first law of business: The customer is always right!

 

You should understand posts before replying to therm. a potential buyer hasn't paid anything.

 

Ahyone who's actually had dealings with customers knows that they are not always right.

 

 

 

You should understand posts before replying to therm. a potential buyer hasn't paid anything.

 

Ahyone who's actually had dealings with customers knows that they are not always right.

 

Yeah sorry, my bad. But some of you folks take things way too literally...

I don't care about deadlines, but once in a while, posting pictures or even just text about the development status of a product can't hurt anyone and would keep everyone quiet.

 

Silence is nothing and annoying too.

It's a fine line you have to tread when releasing information about products. In a nutshell, software release dates often slip and estimates about when software will be ready are hard to make accurately.

Only last month after one of our guys said publically that he thought the 146-200/300 service pack would be two weeks away. A few days after this guesstimated timeframe came and went one our our customers made a public statement about how we were "liars", had "no morals or respect for our customers" by making these false statements and how he hoped that the member of the team in question was going to be punished for what he said (and this was in regards to a 146-300 variant that we were giving away to customers for free).

 

Some people like to see screenshots and videos throughout the development process and some people get frustrated that this product that they want is being constantly danged in front of them. The old saying of you can't please all of the people all of the time springs to mind.

Personally we have been going down the route of keeping things under wraps until a couple of weeks before release of late. At the moment our in-house team are finishing up work on a certain three-engined airliner but until we are sure that the work left to do is straightforward enough that we can be as certain as we possibly can be that it isn't going to slip we won't be releasing any details. That way when the deluge of "when will it be out" questions start we can give a firm date that shouldn't lead to frustrations (and accusations of being imoral, disrespectful liars :wacko:).

Yummy, DC-10 :lol:

Yeah sorry, my bad. But some of you folks take things way too literally...

 

And some of us folks expect people to understand what they've read and what they write,

I don't really understand why folk see FS Add-ons as any different to any other consumer product?

 

Car manufacturers announce new models but don't release images until they're ready. They all make different sized and purpose vehicles. They all test these before releasing them. They all pitch their product at a level/type of consumer. They often have recalls, patches, fixes.

 

You read the review and you make your choice. You pay your money and your satisfaction by word of mouth makes the cars reputation. Enough good individual car reputations enhances the entire manufacturer's reputation ....or otherwise?

 

If you buy a new TV don't you read the reviews of the current models? Check out the latest features and technology?

 

Of course there are those who ALWAYS have to have the latest. There are the badge snobs. There are those who swallow the hype hook line and sinker.

 

There are several projects from several developers in the course of completion at the moment that interest me. the C172 and An-2 are both being developed by different developers. When they're released someone will review them. When I've seen some feedback I'll buy one. In the meantime I've still got (and I'm sure I'm not alone here?) a load of aircraft I've bought and not explored or mastered already :unsure:

 

Like your Car or your TV you can only use one at a time :huh: .

 

Chill out......

 

Geoff

I see a lot of posts saying in effect "When is so and so going to release such and such a/c?"in a way that implies that it should have already been done and to be expected within days of the request. It takes a long time to do stuff that is worthy of public use. For example I've been working on a new sound file that has actually taken months to get exactly right. To balance the sounds correctly and ensure that the sim sound engine replicates the sounds correctly in all situations. On top of that this process exposed the fact that the airfile had to be re-adjusted to match the flight manual (including a MS inbuilt error in table 1505 having to be corrected). Having gone to all this trouble a new T&P panel has had to be made showing five gauges per engine. So back to the airfile to adjust temperatures and pressures and percents based on ISA. Graphs to be made for hot starts, EGT overheat, N1 overspool and so on. Creating an artificial model for P7 as it's not modelled in the sim.

Sure I'll have everything ready by the end of the week. Guaranteed-Not!