ORBX World is here!

[lateagain 45]

I'm a big fan of Steam and have migrated pretty much my entire game library onto it. As long as you have a fast Internet connection for downloading the games it's fantastic. The regular sales can't be beat either. Unfortunately there's still a huge amount of misinformation out there about Steam and how it works.

Well that depends upon what you call "misinformation"? Maybe not everyone has the same experience of STEAM and although yours might be good others might equally be bad.

 

One of the big grouses in the Rail Sim community is that "what seemed like a good idea", automatic patching and upgrading of the software via STEAM was actually screwing up folks custom tweaks to their set up and in some cases rendering their sim unplayable.

 

I think the idea of STEAM is great for gamers but simulation is a hobby as much as a game and offers infinite choice to the end user. No automatic system could ever successfully address such users because there will be thousands of variations in set ups.

 

I ditched Rail Works for a number of reasons and was happy to ditch STEAM with it. In 11 years of enjoying flight and train simming I never needed steam, have downloaded most of my software more recently and had very few problems that weren't immediately sorted by support. I don't see what STEAM "brings to the party" for simmers really?

 

The world of simming is a peculiarly PC phenomenum. Most youngsters grew up with Games Consoles. My daughter has had Playstations, X Boxes and Wii's and only ever uses her PC for surfing. As more and more games are produced for consoles and instant gratification becomes the standard I'd suggest where the next generation of simmers, painters, modellers etc. are coming from is more of an issue than new simulators. Check out the obituaries in Flight and Train Simming. Are as many starting out creating stuff as those who have left us?

 

Still lets not indulge too much in Navel fluff inspection! :lol: . We've got good train and flight sims NOW and if something better comes along that's great .....but if you're obsessed with that? Maybe you need a better hobby? B)

[OmniAtlas 93]

I'm wondering if we can get a steam-marketplace for all flight sim addons.

[tonywob 4,784]

@lateagain

 

It's something that worries me too. It seems that all new games/simulations are being geared towards console type/app store type gaming. If anyone is a fan of the SimCity franchise, just look what has/will become of SimCity 5. It will be an online only game, modding probably will be non-existent, and they simply ignored all of their fans who have kept the platform alive since SimCity 4 released a long time ago (Sounds familiar). What irks me is who makes these decisions? I'm almost 99.9% sure the game will fail, just like Flight did. Companies like this are trying to change games to suit a new generation, i.e. Internet/Facebook crowd, and I doubt most casual gamers would spend money/time using flight simulators, buying addons etc, so there is no money in it.

 

If the suits think there is no market for it, then I'm worried there will never be another decent Flight/Train/City simulator etc. X-Plane is still too niche, and I stopped using it when X-Plane 10 came out because of poor performance, although I regularly fire it up after each update to see what's improved. P3D (sorry to bring it up again) is just FSX with a questionable EULA and future.

 

I know it sounds funny, but the next Flight Sim if we ever see one will probably after payable upgrades inside the app. "Upgrade your C172 with a Jet Engine for $4.99" with "Post to Facebook" buttons everywhere, yack, no thanks :(

[OmniAtlas 93]

Someone get a kickstarter project going for a new flight sim development, I'll put some money in.

[EngineRoom 205]

Well that depends upon what you call "misinformation"? Maybe not everyone has the same experience of STEAM and although yours might be good others might equally be bad.

 

The biggest and most common bit of misinformation I often see stated is that it requires an active Internet connection to play your games. That is of course untrue. You need an active net connection when you first install the game to activate/update it but after that an active connection is not needed. I work at sea for many months each year and go for long periods without a net connection. The day before I join the ship I fire up Steam, let it update my games and then switch to offline mode knowing that my games will all work fine for the next few months until I come home.

 

I understand what you mean about Steam's automatic updates. It can be a pain at times and the "disable automatic updates" option only works until you next log into Steam. However, if you've got a custom setup for something then it's perfectly possible to switch Steam to offline mode or backup your installation (or modified files) so you can copy them back over every time Steam updates the game and overwrites your modified files.

 

I don't see what STEAM "brings to the party" for simmers really?

 

Not so much for simmers, but for those who want to sell simulators it can put their product slap bang into the middle of the screens of 20 million active Steam users when they log in and see the new releases section.

[kannwar 47]

I don't know about other countries, but here in the UK PC games are increasingly hard to find on the high street. The biggest retailer of video games - Game - went bust last year and most of the shops were shut. The few branches of Game that remain, along with the Game Station (owned by the same company) have a pitifully small PC games section. The other high street retailer that stocked video games was HMV and they have been in dire straits for some time now feeling the squeeze from cheaper online retailers. I honestly don't think the future of flight simulation in in brick and mortar retailers. The future is already digital distribution direct from the developer/publisher or a specialist online retailer like Simmarket of Flightsimstore.

 

It's the same here in New Zealand really. It's so funny though - at my local Dick Smith store (electronics retailer here in NZ) there is a copy of FSX in the small section dedicated to PC Gaming. It's in the clearance section of that small area and it's been there for ages but the fact that it's there at all amazed me. I even took a photo of it.

 

I'm a big fan of Steam and have migrated pretty much my entire game library onto it. As long as you have a fast Internet connection for downloading the games it's fantastic. The regular sales can't be beat either. Unfortunately there's still a huge amount of misinformation out there about Steam and how it works.

 

I concur. Steam is the best thing to happen to PC gaming since the internet, or perhaps even hardware graphics acceleration.

 

Absolutely agree! I love Steam and have been snagging my favorite games on sales as they've popped up. I don't buy hard-copy games anymore. Why would I? With Steam I can pre-order a game, pre-load it and as soon as the release date hits I'm off playing! Oh and forget about the old days of spending time searching for and installing patches. Steam downloads all the updates for you and installs them automatically - you can then make a backup of the fully updated game to a device of your choice (optical disk, external HDD, whatever). Re-install is a breeze and you never have install the same game updates ever again. Not to mention how much easier it will be shifting house if all my games are on a small external instead of, say, a great big box with them all crammed in. Valve really found a good way of adding some DRM whilst adding a tonne of value to the consumer at the same time. Win win.

 

Anyhow sorry to get off topic. Hopefully we will see more flight sim publishers move towards Steam distribution. I know Aerofly is on there. Maybe Austin might just consider it for XPlane?

[CoolP 283]

Valve really found a good way of adding some DRM whilst adding a tonne of value to the consumer at the same time. Win win.

Puzzling euphemism. Wasn't it you who called freeware devs 'selfish' lately? And now you are declaring one of the most intrusive DRM systems and one the most questioned platforms when it comes to customer rights, or not-rights, as a win win.

 

Don't get me wrong, you are free to do so. But, to me, it looks like the decoy of the easy usage is able to blind people about e.g. the terms of service or the fact that the thing collects data or just requires to (online) authenticate for simple single player sessions. Even with boxed releases.

 

I don't think we need a platform monopoly to play games, protect them or download updates. The ones setting up those aim for establishing a lucrative spot between the actual dev of a game and the customers. I prefer a more direct model as I don't like my money, rights and privacy going South just because I want to play. Money to the devs, less to the various middlemen.

 

Not to forget that, with a growing market share, the all become greedy and/or start working on becoming an exclusive distribution platform. Monopoly. 'Free' but inescapable conditions. Ask how EA's Origin service came up for example.

 

By this.

Hopefully we will see more flight sim publishers move towards Steam distribution.

I hope not. :mellow: It actually isn't needed.

 

The diversity of shops and systems is a win and keeps you flexible. It also keeps them in check. The dependency on a few large platforms, all of them proven to be far away from playing fair, isn't. I know that's a hard statement in times where people buy because 'it's on sale' and not because they really need or want it.

 

We really shouldn't communicate the issue as if successful business can only happen on one of the major platforms securing the distribution, collecting data and e.g. forbidding used sales.

 

Is it a problem if Orbx sells their software via their preferred shop and others? No. In fact, that's a very fair shop, allowing unlimited downloads, giving you a HU on updates and offering services for the offline users or the ones with small bandwidth. Why change that in favour of a few, already big, players?

 

Hmpf, I guess we are off topic with that one. :blush:

[HiFlyer 9,426]

We can talk about diversity in the current flightsim market and a plethora of choices etc but I think that's part of the problem. In fact, Avsim itself in its original incarnation as a centralized distributer of freeware seemed to me to be a reaction to a sprawl of addons scattered across the web in a zillion different ways from a million different people that made finding them an exercise in patience and frustration.

 

One problem solved but others remain. Inconsistent and often complicated and/or confusing patch processes from numerous publishers on various sites scattered everywhichway creates what may be a well trodden path for long time simmers (that grew with the situation) but it presents an increasingly byzantine labyrinth for potential newcomers accustomed to much simpler and more modern ecosystems.

 

And all this for access to programs whose age is becoming increasingly obvious despite the best efforts of the 3rd parties. On the other hand, we have newer if arguably less expansive programs (its still early days) designed from the beginning to avoid the patch headache, with a single theft discouraging drm automatically a part of the package, with easy redownload of the software at any time guaranteed, and with healthy modding community's for any game/sim that allows it (and many do)

 

For me it seems like current legacy sims will either make the choice to remain in the past and be eventually overrun (however slowly) or they will accept the inevitability of change and lean forwards. Like it or not, the Apple Store, Steam, Android Market, GoG etc are the wave of the future and standing in front of them, you probably have as much chance as the average mom and pop railing against Walmart. You may well be right, but you are also almost certainly toast.

[Guest]

After reading the last few ( :rolleyes: ) posts I got the odd idea that 'Orbx World' is a name for some sort of Steam for flightsimming... B)

 

'Orbx World: for all your flightsimming needs!' :lol:

 

BTW Just had a look at the Steam site. About 98% of the games on the main page is about killing and death and gore... I must be getting old... It occurred to me that FSX is the only game I play nowadays... (But this is getting REALLY OT...)

[HiFlyer 9,426]

After reading the last few ( :rolleyes: ) posts I got the odd idea that 'Orbx World' is a name for some sort of Steam for flightsimming... B)

 

'Orbx World: for all your flightsimming needs!' :lol:

 

BTW Just had a look at the Steam site. About 98% of the games on the main page is about killing and death and gore... I must be getting old... It occurred to me that FSX is the only game I play nowadays... (But this is getting REALLY OT...)

 

Once the thread is long enough...........

 

But this seems a fairly orderly progression. Orbx world, then price vs gex, then is it a revolution or just another coat of paint on an aging car, then whats the future? then To Steam or not to Steam........

[CoolP 283]

Like it or not, the Apple Store, Steam, Android Market, GoG etc are the wave of the future and standing in front of them, you probably have as much chance as the average mom and pop railing against Walmart.

Geez, declaring to be defeated before the war has started.

 

Seriously, there's no one stating to stick to 'old' ways. And an open market isn't old at all. Monopoles are. :mellow: If people follow the lemming before them because of the nice UI, disregarding the rigid DRM, lack of customer rights and forbidden used software, so be it.

 

But hey, people aren't stupid but, sometimes, blind. And even millions of Steam users oppose millions of not Steam users, right?

 

The package is what counts. And since I can see devs or shops outside of the big portals handling privacy, copy protection and updates just fine, I don't doubt that there's a lack of good examples. I don't need a prominent UI to tell me what to buy and what not. I also don't need to be checked 24/7 or just monitored for my preferences.

 

So if you are selling me that Orbx package via a shop collection where I can pick my favourites and support or not support certain policies, I will be just fine. Having a choice, not a single platform.

 

Besides, I know countries where Walmart seriously failed and later left. ^_^

[HiFlyer 9,426]

Geez, declaring to be defeated before the war has started.

 

Seriously, there's no one stating to stick to 'old' ways. And an open market isn't old at all. Monopoles are. :mellow: If people follow the lemming before them because of the nice UI, disregarding the rigid DRM, lack of customer rights and forbidden used software, so be it.

 

But hey, people aren't stupid but, sometimes, blind. And even millions of Steam users oppose millions of not Steam users, right?

 

The package is what counts. And since I can see devs or shops outside of the big portals to handle privacy, copy protection and updates just fine, I don't doubt that there's a lack of good examples. I don't need a prominent UI to tell me what to buy and what not. I also don't need to be checked 24/7 or just monitored for my preferences.

 

So if you are selling me that Orbx package via a shop collection where I can pick my favourites and support or not support certain policies, I will be just fine. Having a choice, not a single platform.

 

Besides, I know countries where Walmart seriously failed and later left. ^_^

 

This is another one of those subjects where I am perfectly wiling to sit back and let time speak. And to be clear, I can see your point in some ways, but I don't feel Steam has limited choice. In fact via steam, the Apple store and others, small individual publishers have had a major resurgence after years of decline. Its not a binary choice no choice situation.

 

As for Seam users vs not...... whither the brick and mortar PC stores? Will publishers sell through mail now? And who will pay the higher fees for that vs downloads? Start your own download store? Steam already holds the high ground and what about economies of scale? Consolidation happens, and again, you have just a few big players or just Steam, or whatever defeats Steam.......

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

BTW Just had a look at the Steam site. About 98% of the games on the main page is about killing and death and gore... I must be getting old... It occurred to me that FSX is the only game I play nowadays... (But this is getting REALLY OT...)

 

If you take a better look, you'll see that Steam has many non-violent titles, as well as awesome indie games. If flight simulators are the only thing you're playing, Steam includes Microsoft Flight as well as aeroflyFS. Both are on sale right now, and aeroflyFS is a great deal.

[CoolP 283]

Why the binary talks? You don't see me painting black and white pictures. To be clear, I applaud to the fact that the PC platform sums up all the choices, the big and the small ones. I hope it stays that way since the console folks or even the smartphone ones may already be asking what we are talking about. ^_^

 

So if there's a dev promoting his stuff via open forums only or setting up a cheap website or picking any other way, it's as good as going via the professional sales and PR departments of the big platforms. The choice stuff starts with the actual dev having one.

 

I just raise concerns on wishing for 'a single platform' where everything seems to be so easy but, in fact, is very limited and rigid. The bigger that platform gets, the more will it demand. As seen. There isn't a single positive example among the big names. The all received their letters from customer rights agencies. For good reason. They even disregard the EU ruling on used software.

 

For instance, Origin just developed because EA wasn't happy with what Valve ordered them. Well, now you can pick two rigid DRM thingies with the mentioned downsides. That's not the choice I was talking about! ^_^

 

 

It's no news that people start missing their freedom only after it's gone. The same is true for the low numbers of people looking closer into what the shop system likes to order them. The buy, download and install buttons are big, the rest is small font. Surprise! And who cares about conditions as long is everything is working and (looking) simple? :rolleyes: So I don't question the 'this is the future' talks. I just state that it's not the one you may want.

 

The claim on keeping choices doesn't mean that we have to go back to the stone age. Of course not. Selling software worked before and after platforms like Steam. And I openly ask if all the stuff going out on sales really gets used or if people just react to what the system told them, 'bargain! must buy!'. Folks obey.

 

I guess that's a more global issue though. Asking yourself if you are an aware participant or just reacting to the impulses somebody sets up for you. Subtle work. Not to forget that an industry is really good at doing so. Thanks to your data I may add. :Batting Eyelashes:

[HiFlyer 9,426]

Of course, pretty much everyone asks for the same data anyway. Whether its a single mega-corp for all purchases, or 50 smaller transactions.......