Fixed 14 seems rock solid on my system and works fine for FSX, but it's obviously no good for first person shooters, maybe if I look out a side window the scenery is just visibly stepping. 18-19 fps is where the human eye finds it hard to spot updates.

 

18-19 is not smooth. You have just ignored basic neurobiology.

 

It is obvious that if your VC isn't moving then you obviously won't be aware of frame rate.

 

Now try panning around the VC at 18 FPS

 

 

 

Thank you that is exactly my point am trying to point out to martin. 15 FPS is not garbage as he said am not saying my system stays at 15 but when it drops from 30 to 15 on orbx scenery i don't even notice it an i am running track ir with airbus extended an in the NGX . On ground i have 15 to 25 FPS once i takeoff FPS goes to 26 to 30 an stays 28 an 30 steady while i climb to higher altitude. The level of smoothness is breath taking to me . Maybe i will record a video with out No Editing programs so you can have a look.

 

No offence but if you think 15 is breathtaking, then you guys must be incredibly insensitive.

 

 

I blame the junk food you kids eat

 

 

Stop comparing game framerates with movies and neurology. Please read this

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate#Video_games

 

Especially these parts

 

Without realistic motion blurring, video games and computer animations do not look as fluid as film, even with a higher frame rate.

 

A high frame rate still does not guarantee fluid movements, especially on hardware with more than one GPU. This effect is known as micro stuttering.

Calm down martin, you're not taking in properly what people are saying.

Stop comparing game framerates with movies and neurology. Please read this

 

http://en.wikipedia....ate#Video_games

 

Especially these parts

 

Without realistic motion blurring, video games and computer animations do not look as fluid as film, even with a higher frame rate.

 

A high frame rate still does not guarantee fluid movements, especially on hardware with more than one GPU. This effect is known as micro stuttering.

 

:biggrin: Thanks for posting exactly what I've been trying to get through to you guys. Cinematography was mentioned in order to point out that games require even higher frame rate than cinematography to be perceived as smooth to the human eye. It used to be said, among simmers, that 25 FPS is smooth in the sim. It's not! This is why cinematography was addressed.

 

In regard to neurobiology, of course I will mention it, because it's the factor that determines whether we perceive motion as continuous, or if we perceive each frame.

 

As for micro stuttering, you guys aren't reading my posts.

 

Sorry for the underlining, it's just for emphasis, as you seem to have missed important points I've made several times.

 

I don't get any stuttering, or micro stuttering, apart from the barely perceptable quiver that requires super concentrarion to notice, so, again, as I've said several times...

 

With no stuttering and no micro stuttering, a smooth experience 15 frames per second, is still perceived in terms of each individual frame. For you to deny that is to ignore basic biology. This is undeniable, the human eye, and brain, are not designed to perceive 15 FPS as continous motion, whether you have stutters or not... this is scientific fact.

 

 

 

The nice thing about science is that whether you agree with it or not... it's still fact.

 

You guys are sitting there in your motionless VC and thinking, "yippee, this is awesome, nice and smooth". Of course it's smooth, it has to be it isn't moving. :smile: You confirmed this yourself, by pointing out that when you look outside, at a scene that's in motion, you percieve the frame rate.

 

Now pan around the VC, and you will percive each and every frame at 15 frames per second. Something you ignored when I posted it above. :smile:

 

Calm down martin, you're not taking in properly what people are saying.

 

Steve, with respect, in the UK we call that "the pot calling the kettle black."

 

No need to calm down, I'm as cool as a cucumber, despite the obvious frustration of several points I've made, clearly being ignored. I would have posted smilies in my post above, to highlight my amusement and calmness, but not possible as I was posting from my phone.

 

As for taking in what you guys are saying... I'm an English native speaker, I also write science fiction, therfore I understand the written word, but unfortunately your points are invalid.

 

In addition, I am a former professional photographer, with qualifications in the field.

 

Of course, I may have been correct, when I mentioned above that you guys might be incredibly insensitve, if you pan around the VC at 15 frames per second and can't identify each frame.

 

You must be if you think such a thing is "breathtaking". But hey, if your're happy, so be it. But please don't deny scientific fact, There's too much of that these days.

Fixed 14 seems rock solid on my system and works fine for FSX, but it's obviously no good for first person shooters, maybe if I look out a side window the scenery is just visibly stepping. 18-19 fps is where the human eye finds it hard to spot updates.

 

14 you say...

 

Now pan quickly around the VC...

 

If you can't perceive each frame, you are not a human being. Because human beings are not designed to perceive such slow frame rate as smooth. Certainly not breathtaking as someone posted above.

I have NEVER disabled system restore in many years of having a PC, And trust me, it's a lot of years. I've lost count of the number of times system restore has saved my bacon. It's a VERY useful feature.

 

Quite a lot of what you suggest above I would disagree with. And yet...

 

I run at 50 frames per second, and very, very, very rarely see any stutters at all.

 

Just enjoyed an awesome flight in the Realair Duke... Rarely at any time during the flight did frame rate drop below 40. That's with UTX, GEX, and REX.

 

I7 3770k [4.5 GHz]

GTX 580

8 GB DDR3.

 

The secret to great performance is simple, and actually it's not a secret at all. Fast CPU, fast GPU, decent RAM... and reject the hyper detailed payware add-on fetish, and the illogical desire for high slider settings.

 

BP=0 is highly advised too, if you have a compatible card.

 

If I ever got less than 25-30 FPS, I would be very, very disappointed and play BF3 instead.

 

Astonishes me how many simmers are delighted if they get 15 frames per second, because it's "smooth". 15 frames per second, is 15 frames per second, and stutter free or not, 15 frames per second is garbage.

 

Use common sense with any "tweaks" suggested, Don't take anyone's advice on face value. Think for yourself. Test it, if it works, great. If it doesn't, reject it. And that applies if it's a super dooper auto tweak web site, or advice from a so called FSX guru... or anyone posting in this thread, including me.

 

you are wrong, you are just lucky, FSX is all about LUCK nothing else

more than 70% of simmers plays the game between 25 and 30 FPS, and 30% of lucky simmers like you who can have more FPS.

And what is your FPS in the NGX cockpit in a mega scenery airport ? Because i can also get around 50-70 FPS when looking outside with unlimited FPS with a GA plane over mountains...

 

and, poolsize=0 is also about luck, i have gtx 660 and it does not work for me (and it used to work before...), my game is full of flickering (with DX9) so i have to use DX10

And what is your FPS in the NGX cockpit in a mega scenery airport ? Because i can also get around 50-70 FPS when looking outside with unlimited FPS with a GA plane over mountains...

 

:biggrin: Another example of forum members not reading my posts. You didn't read the very post you quoted.

 

you are wrong, you are just lucky, FSX is all about LUCK nothing else

more than 70% of simmers plays the game between 25 and 30 FPS, and 30% of lucky simmers like you who can have more FPS.

 

I am locked at 50, no stutters, and get 50 frequently in the NGX VC.

 

It's nothing to do with luck. As I have posted a multitude of times now, I am not obsessed with high sliders. I am not obsessed with hyper detailed payware airports. That's the secret, along with a powerful rig.

 

There are examples in other threads, where I am parked at EGLL, with FSX Grey and rainy weather scenario, at 44 FPS. That's with GEX, UTX, REX.

 

I am advocate of high frame rate, both in terms of the visual advantage, and in terms of flight dynamics. The top notch add-on handles far better in terms of flight dynamics at 30+ than at 10 FPS.

 

To achieve thiss, I do not have super high detailed add-on airports... or super high sliders. Although many are indeed set high.

 

It's no secret.

 

and, poolsize=0 is also about luck, i have gtx 660 and it does not work for me (and it used to work before...), my game is full of flickering (with DX9) so i have to use DX10

 

Not sure I'd agree with that. Wouldn't say it's luck. You need a graphics card that can handle BP=0. You also need to be aware of the factors that can induce artifacts with BP=0. For example, when I was locked at 60, I got artifacts. But simply knocking my frame rate lock back to 50, all artifacts were gone.

 

You need to identify the varaible that's causing issues for you.

 

I know what you mean though, all systems are different. The 1/2 Vsync thing doesn't work for me, it merely induces stutters, but if I lock at 50, and forget all about the 1/2 Vsync, all is well, no stutters, high frame rate. I do have a 120Hz monitor though, which may be a factor.

 

Another important factor I believe, is to keep it simple. Too many simmers get all excited about the plethora of tweaks out there, and their cfg's get totally bogged down. I just use a handful of tweaks that I have tested, and know to work. I don't take anyone else's advice on face value, I find out for myself by testing the tweak.

 

BP=0 works great for me, I gained 14 FPS in a bad weather sscenario in the NGX. But as I said above, I had to track down why it wasn't working without artifacts, but did with my old 17920.

@Talek

 

My advice to you, would be to get rid of evry single tweak you are using.

 

Including the 1/2 Vsync.

 

 

Then try JUST...

 

[bufferPools]

 

 

 

PoolSize=0

 

 

That way, by temporarily eliminating the other variables you can determine if it's working or not.

you are wrong, you are just lucky, FSX is all about LUCK nothing else

more than 70% of simmers plays the game between 25 and 30 FPS, and 30% of lucky simmers like you who can have more FPS.

And what is your FPS in the NGX cockpit in a mega scenery airport ? Because i can also get around 50-70 FPS when looking outside with unlimited FPS with a GA plane over mountains...

 

and, poolsize=0 is also about luck, i have gtx 660 and it does not work for me (and it used to work before...), my game is full of flickering (with DX9) so i have to use DX10

 

Nothing to do with luck, maybe experience

If you want to use bufferpools tweak you must use locked fps

I'am not stupid i know all tweaks and i have experience

I was using locked FPS (AT 30), water at high 2X, pre rendered frames at 1

 

i tried hundreds of stuff, it just doesn't working, my sim is full of flickering with DX9 and poolsize=0

this happens since i upgraded my W7 home edition to ultimate and nvidia driver 306 to 310

i reinstalled W7 ultimate 3 times, and tried to come back to 306 with different methods and still flickering.

 

last thing i can do is to come back to W7 home edition but i don't have time and i am good with directx 10.

 

(my specs: i5 3570K 4,5 ghz + gtx 660)

Well Martin you just aint listening. I started at 10fps and around 14 the stepping scenery out the side window was just beginning to ease, then at 18 it became hard to spot, at 19fps I couldn't see it. So it's smooth at 19 and panning is smooth, more fps than that I have to reduce autogen and then I get little pictures of houses between little houses. And here's 19fps.

Well Martin you just aint listening. I started at 10fps and around 14 the stepping scenery out the side window was just beginning to ease, then at 18 it became hard to spot, at 19fps I couldn't see it. So it's smooth at 19 and panning is smooth, more fps than that I have to reduce autogen and then I get little pictures of houses between little houses. And here's 19fps.

 

 

 

To clarify, I'm reffering to smoothness in terms of the inability to percieve each frame. Nothing to do with stuttering. I'm talking about the ability to perceive the image as continuous motion, the inability to perceive each individual frame.

 

 

I am of course listening, as I have been all along, and most definitely capable of understanding your points. I am also fascinated by your inability to perceive individual frames at a mere 19 frames per second. Not being funny, but if you can't spot each frame at a mere 19 frames per second, then there must be something subjective going on. I've yet to come across anyone who can't spot each frame, at 19 frames per second very, very, very easily. Precisely why higher frame rate is coveted.

 

Perhaps I'm a super hero, with ultra special perception??? :biggrin:

 

 

 

If you can pan around the NGX VC, [or an outside view] at 18 FPS and barely see each frame, or at 19 and not perceive each frame at all, then you may be possessed with alien biology, and originate from a parallel universe. Perhaps one of those bubble universes floating in higher dimensional space.

 

:wink: Just joking, trying to lighten the mood. This stuff is only a game, and shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

P.S. Thanks for the still shot at 19 FPS. By the way, still images don't move, so not sure how that tells us anything about smooth continuous motion.

 

Just kidding, good luck to you, glad you are enjoying the sim. :smile:

Talking about frame rates in isolation is counterproductive. We all know that there are many variables affecting frame rates--from hardware to drivers, driver settings, add ons, and fsx sliders. Moreover, it's obvious that there's a degree of user's subjectivity at play. What's good for me may not be good for you. If you insist on flying in heavy cities like NYC, you will encounter lower frame rates than in less dense areas. When it's all said and done, one can have a legitimate need if frame rates do not go above 15 fps with a modern cpu and video card. From 20 to 30 it's where all the fun( and arguments) start. I think it's possible to bring fps in the 18 or so range without sacrificing visuals and life like performance.

When Steve suggested that I do a fresh FSX.cfg, I did and my frame rates went down to 15. I added the no buffer pool tweak and my frame rates are in the high teens--with all the sliders to the right in Seattle. This seems to work for me, and unless one of you comes to my house and shows me what I am doing wrong, I'll keep it this way. I, too, have spent hundreds of hours chasing that elusive high frame rates, and , sadly, I still have no clue.

tc

Moreover, it's obvious that there's a degree of user's subjectivity at play.

 

Correct, I agree. All the data that passes from our senses goes to the brain, where it's processed. This is precisely how we can habituate. You can't feel the chair under your bum, because the brain filters it out. However, now I've mentioned it to you... you can.

 

So yes, in terms of perceiving a moving image, whether it's on the cinema, or in a game, as smooth continuous motion, there is a degree of subjectivity. But it's "a degree of subjectivity" and you would be hard pressed to find an individual like the poster above, who tells us he finds it impossible to perceive each frame at a mere 19 FPS. Subjectivity in this regard isn't usually that extreme.

 

Good to hear you have achieved some kind of an improvement anyway. :smile:

 

I'am not stupid i know all tweaks and i have experience

 

 

There's no need to be rude.

 

I'll leave you to it then, and refrain from attempting to help you. You are so "experienced" you obviously don't need my help.

 

Have fun.

Yes leave me, no need to hear obvious stuff.

If you want to help say me something never mentioned on Word Not Allowed guide and other well known guides.