Q400 or NGX

[Nuno Pinto 1,409]

If we're comparing systems, fidelity, overall product, although i don't know about dashes much and EVEN if the dash has a simulated weather radar which is simply awesome to see in operation (adds to the environment a lot), i'd say the 737 looks overall more convincing.

 

The dash doesn't taxi like most other aircraft (simulated by the joystick rotation/rudder while on ground) and i have no idea why, this is a failure for me. The FMS isn't drawing SIDs and STARs on the ND (my fault?) and the manual is lacking quite a lot of information about this and the 737 had a superb tutorial since day 1. I didn't read a single page of it because i flew many hours with the iFly, but i needed the dashes manual and it's not there.

 

So if we're comparing products side by side, i'd say the 737 is a better product overall. The "king" is still to be dethroned and i bet it'll be needed something like the 777 from the same company to do that.

[XPX64man 130]

I think they are both top notch aircraft sims.  The Dash is the absolute best regional turboprop simulation in existance, and the NGX is still the top commercial jet simulation.  I don't think either is "dethroned" because of the other.

It's like comparing the Dodo Sim Bell helicopter to the NGX.  They are two different animals.

Also, the Dash just came out.  Who knows what updates will come with the first couple of service packs?

[jason74 142]

i know this sounds crazy but the vnav operation is described in great detail in the manual. check out page 121-125 or so. the tutorial skips a lot of details which are in the manual.

 

cheers-

andy crosby

 

Thanks ill ckeck out those pages in the manual

 

Cheers

Jason

[WotanUK 289]

Hmm i find myself agreeing word for word with "NaMcO".

 

I really don't like the external loader, after being spoiled with the CDU based NGX.

 

It is however a good shot, very close.  Once the documentation issues are sorted and we are provided with a better tutorial flight...

[Caribpilot 56]

The Dash 8 is kinda a step backward in pilot career evolution compared with the 737 me thinks

 

It's not what you fly....it's how well you fly my friend   Thats what determines the evolution of your career. In some airlines you actually start off on the Dash 8 as an FO, then a 737 FO and then you upgrade to being a Dash 8 Captain.

 

Ok folks, comparing the Q400 to the NGX is very tricky. They are two completely different aircrafts. No one can argue that the NGX cockpit looks better or vice versa, since they have very different cockpits and each product captures them as they are in real life. The NGX and Q400 (Pilot Edition) are neck and neck but one cannot deny that the FDE of the Q400 and the features to come in the Pro and Training edition is far above what the NGX was created to do. One cannot compare how the 737 flies to the Q400 since they are completely different airplanes with vastly different characteristics.

Speaking from real world flying experience the Q400 is the first aircraft that has come the closest to how a real aircraft "FEELS" in the air. I think the fact that real airline pilots use MJC products to stay abreast of things speaks volumes.

 

Systems wise, The NGX and Q400 out shine each other in different ways. Either way they are two of the best products out there and you can't go wrong buying one or the other. When the Pro and Training Edition are available it will be quite clear that the Q400 will be at the top of the list.

 

The only other aircrafts that come close are the Leonardo Maddog, Coolsky DC-9 and the Concorde X

[hopskip 253]

I find the NGX easier to fly... mostly because I'm used to the FMS. The Q400 FMS is still throwing me a few curve balls, but give it a month and I'm sure I'll be used to it.

 

One aircraft does 450 knots and the other doesn't. One cruises at FL380 and one cruises at FL240. One has an approach speed in the 140kts region and the other has an approach speed in the 120kts region. One can stop in a shorter distance than the other. One has a fully automated throttle and the other doesn't. 

 

As far as the simulations go, I like them both.

 

 

 

What happens when you press WXR on the NGX?

 

It does the honest thing and tells you that the weather radar isn't simulated.

The Q400 WXR puts randomized green yellow and red shaded areas on the ND which are roughly located where clouds are. Not where rain is.

[hopskip 253]

The Dash 8 is kinda a step backward in pilot career evolution compared with the 737 me thinks

A real pilot I know started his career as a 747-400 Second Officer (well after flying school in Single Pistons and Twins where you pay them to fly instead of getting paid).

 

After his role in the 747, he went to the 737 as a First officer. After some time there was a promotion opportunity on the Q400 fleet and he decided that he wanted to be a Q400 Captain instead of staying as a 737 First officer for years.

 

He gets paid more to fly the Q400 (as captain) than he did to fly the 747-400 and the 737 too.

 

He couldn't 'graduate' to Captain on the 737 (or 747) because they weren't recruiting for that aircraft in the airline (someone has to retire before a slot opens up).

 

What's his favourite aircraft?

 

"The one you get paid the most to fly the least amount of time on is the best one".

 

Another good thing about the Q400 is that they generally get to go home every night instead of being stuck in a foreign country for days on end. 

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

NGX Rules   :good:

[A320FAN 370]

The question does not arise. It's the NGX

[dscalora 0]

Personally I prefer apples to oranges

[LeeL 272]

I like both. Haven't had much time in the Q but I like it.

 

The dash might edge ahead because it is a real world favorite of mine.

 

I think a lot of the problems people are facing is just that they're not used to the technology. It's different from Boeings and Airbuses. I didn't do the tutorial, just reading the manuals when I need/want to know something.

 

Im sure even those of us who have flown with many different avionics systems are all going to the manual for this one, having their old Q300 wouldve helped.

 

So don't knock it till you've learnt it

 

What I would like to see change is being able to use my joystick as a tiller like I can for other planes. I find using the mouse is the smoothest and once you drag it once you can move your eye point but keep controlling the tiller.

 

I find the external loader axis settings a bit weird but I think I'll get used to it.

 

Support was fantastic doing the server problems. That is worth it to me. Both companies have that in common though.

 

My .2 cents (which in Canada would be rounded to 0 cents now with the lack of a penny lol)

 

Lee

[Boeing or not going 578]

It does the honest thing and tells you that the weather radar isn't simulated.

The Q400 WXR puts randomized green yellow and red shaded areas on the ND which are roughly located where clouds are. Not where rain is.

 

You are completely wrong, but obviously cannot be convinced otherwise.

 

If we're comparing systems, fidelity, overall product, although i don't know about dashes much and EVEN if the dash has a simulated weather radar which is simply awesome to see in operation (adds to the environment a lot), i'd say the 737 looks overall more convincing.

 

The dash doesn't taxi like most other aircraft (simulated by the joystick rotation/rudder while on ground) and i have no idea why, this is a failure for me. The FMS isn't drawing SIDs and STARs on the ND (my fault?) and the manual is lacking quite a lot of information about this and the 737 had a superb tutorial since day 1. I didn't read a single page of it because i flew many hours with the iFly, but i needed the dashes manual and it's not there.

 

So if we're comparing products side by side, i'd say the 737 is a better product overall. The "king" is still to be dethroned and i bet it'll be needed something like the 777 from the same company to do that.

 

The Dash has superior system simulation and fde, merely because it works outside of fsx while the ngx is stuck in the sim.

 

The reason for the taxi is because in reality no big jetliner uses rudders to taxi on the ground. You can use 1 of 3 choices in their setup program

 

The Dash manual is there, are you blind?

 

The 737 is not a better product, you just know how to fly it and you don't know the systems of the Dash. Very different than what your words claim.

[hopskip 253]

You are completely wrong, but obviously cannot be convinced otherwise.

If it is simulating actually seeing precipitation as it occurs in FSX, then rain would either be "on" or "off" in a cylindrical area approximatley 10nm in radius (20nm diameter) to the set "raining" level (usually at the base of the highest cloud) which would randomly turn on and off in the whole area to simulate showers.

 

If it is trying to simulate real rain based on real world, it would need a constant connection to the internet to work.

 

If it is using a Weather addon like ActiveSky to see the rain correctly it would need ActiveSky (or whatever addon) to be installed (and also a constant internet connection).

 

The fact that weather radar is available with the PC disconnected from the internet from sim start and for hours, suggests that it is using FSX to find some weather.

 

Since FSX can only, does only and will only show rain as a cylinder 20nm in diameter and a few thousand ft high, the weather radar emulation is more likely to be basing it's sight off clouds. Clouds in FSX are drawn fairly regularly (as good as "random" as the simulation can muster) but will be randomized in their density. Most emulated WX radars in sims will use the cloud position and density as their major factor.

 

I guess the emulation is also able to manage radar sweep, slant angle and that kind of thing so that the buttons do the thing the real aircraft's buttons do... however the actual radar is not seeing radar returns from precipitation, only from clouds.

 

Real weather radars do not see clouds, only precipitation.

 

So it's a very realistically emulated radar, that does the opposite of what an actual radar does.

 

Also if you fly on Vatsim, and later when you fly on multicrew, the other people near you (or your co-pilot in the Q400 Pro version at some point) will not see the same thing on the weather radar (or indeed out the window) that you see.

 

It's good enough for single pilot ops, and good enough for dual pilot ops if you ignore the weather and plough straight on through heavy TSRA, but if you start trying to turn to avoid it with someone else in your cockpit, you will eventually come into the situation that the captain turns from a heavy TSRA (which is actually a CB which may or may not have rain at all) to avoid it, and the co-pilot sees him turn from a nice rainless area into a huge rainstorm.

 

"Why did you turn straight into the biggest thunderstorm on the whole Weather Radar display captain? ... I didn't, I turned away from the massive thunderstorm that's just off to our left right now. ... But there's nothing there just off to our left."

 

Unless they make the Captains side radar display exactly the same on the multicrew first officer's side... which would match the captain, but not their own representation of what's out the window.

 

That said, I can appreciate both reasons. PMDG didn't want to simulate something that has the problems as above, and Majestic didn't want to leave out a system that can be "emulated" to a point of being "good enough" (and from the perspective of operating the system and ignoring what all the photons are doing in the background it's good enough to actually understand how to use the system).

 

Although the data being displayed isn't the same type of data that a real aircraft would be using, the effect is 'good enough' so that the controls for the system are useable and react pretty much the same as the real one (even though the 'radar' (really a sprite processor) is 'seeing' clouds instead of actual precipitation - which in FSX is always a 20nm diameter cylinder with the players aircraft perfectly in the centre of at all times). It's probably actually good enough for pilot training even though the physics behind the thing aren't 'real'.

 

 

I will add that I suspect that the Q400 is managing to do radar shadowing in their simulation. I havn't tested it out fully yet, and in FSX it's hard to figure out if what you are seeing is because of awesome programming or just cloud redrawing... but I'm sure I'v seen a "reasonably heavy" radar return obscuring a more distant (and just as heavy) radar return. This is of course brilliant if it is the case.

 

Again acknowledging that the radar returns are all Clouds instead of real rain, but you have to use what you have.

[TheDanger 182]

The question does not arise. It's the NGX

 

If there is no question then how can there be an answer?

[some1 65]

The Dash has superior system simulation and fde, merely because it works outside of fsx while the ngx is stuck in the sim.

 

I don't quite get which system simulation in Dash is superior to NGX. Two different planes with different avionics and capabilities, that's it. Guess which one has better documentation and tutorials. 

FDE? Maybe it's better, but so far I've seen some quirks like plane jumping on the parking spot when loading or accessing menus, weird behavior on flaps 45 on landing and so on. It's different, maybe better, but perfect? Not yet.