Ok, have a question about VATSIM, if I'm flying IFR do I need to have and/or know how to use SIDS and STARS?  I think that's the big thing holding me back from trying it.  I've flown for well over 10 years in FS using ILS and with recent versions the gps and/or FMC in payware planes, but have never used a SID or STAR, always vectors from default AI.  I'd love to learn those, but no idea where to obtain them to figure it out.  I know I've seen sites for US ones for free for sim use, but what about Europe and Asia, etc. like while doing a world tour?  Or should I not try using VATSIM for something like that and just for specific flights?

 

No, you don't. Then you will get vectors. But IF you file a SID or STAR, the controller will expect that you know how to fly them

 

 

When these announcements are made, are they heard throughout the network? So, if someone is at KLAX and using 122.8, do I hear them in Norway? Or does Vatsim keep them local to your area only somehow?

 

 

Please remember that while you can (if you wish) announce your intensions on Unicom, you are REQUIRED to text them.  Too many pilots aren't aware of this and do neither, and that sometimes creates problems.  FSINN has a radar module you can use to check for traffic, and the last time I checked SB did not. 

 

 

Dave

Completed my second Vatsim flight from ENGM-EKCH. I've seen it commented on so many times in here that once you try online flying, you'll never go back. Well, count me as one of those people.

 

I actually had approach control and center at ENGM to talk to. Center had radio issues and I bounced back and forth as they worked it out together. Not sure that happens in real life like that, but was still kind of cool that I had a slight ATC delay due to some technical difficulties of one of the controllers. In the end though, I departed with approach and was handed off to ENOS control. Had a SID filed(OKSAT4C) and got cleared direct OKSAT before flying the complete SID just like I've heard in real life.

 

Unfortunately EKCH approach dropped off just before I got to their airspace so I have yet to do an approach under controlled airspace. But, still, I just can't imagine going back to RC4 now and its scripted/predictable ways.

 

I know I will need to try an event one of these times but I think it's nice with what I've done so far to get learning and used to this. There is that slight intimidation factor about talking "over the radio" and that slight anxiety can effect the rest of the flight and your ability to follow your flows etc. So, I need to get better with it all but overall, what a great experience!!!!!

 

Thanks to everyone here for your help, advice, and your time. I appreciate it so much!!! This has brought my simulation experience to the next level again. I think the only thing better than this would be flying a 737NG in real life now!

 

 

Well, count me as one of those people.

 

 

Welcome to the club!

 

I fly out of EKCH all the time, hope to catch you there.

 

 

Dave

Welcome to the club!

 

I fly out of EKCH all the time, hope to catch you there.

 

 

Dave

Thanks Dave. I've been flying Norwegian Air Shuttle routes a lot lately. I really love this part of the world for some reason. I would love to go there in real life some day. Anyway, thanks again and hope to see you on some time too!

Of all the things that could be said about the differences between PilotEdge and VATSIM, I'm not sure that I've heard anyone compare the willingness of the controllers to handle newbies as a significant factor.

 

Both networks represent a big leap forward in the realism of the simulation, but they go about it in very different fashion. VATSIM is global, free, and volunteer-based (reference the point someone made about end up on 122.80 on 90% of their flights), which means that you might get ATC anywhere in the world, but not necessarily where you're flying right now. It's hit & miss in terms of coverage and the quality of ATC. If you're flying heavy metal IFR, then you're in the sweet spot for VATSIM and most controllers are well-trained to handle visual and ILS approaches out of the major airports in their areas. Outside of that, you will see more frequent gaps in the expertise and familiarity of the controllers.

 

PilotEdge takes a different approach and is geared primarily to student/instrument/private pilots who are working on their skills and looking to stay sharp. To that end, the coverage area is a lot smaller, but provides guaranteed ATC presence during the published coverage area (currently the Los Angeles ARTCC) and during the coverage hours (currently 8am-11pm PT). The controllers are trained on all areas of operation that would be required to service the requests of the target market, which goes well beyond limited approaches at large airports. This also appeals to a relatively small number of sim enthusiasts for whom guaranteed ATC is a must have, not a nice to have, and they're willing to give up the wide coverage area and pay a small fee for that level of service. The bulk of the revenue in the medium and long term will actually be from commercial operators, not individual users (to provide a bit more clarity as to how the business is likely to thrive).

 

Another significant difference is the radio system. On VATSIM, you tune to the frequencies of the online controllers, period. If there's one controller online, you'll be on that frequency for your entire flight. On PilotEdge, the controller staffing configuration is not directly exposed to the pilot. Instead, you dial the frequency for the facility you wish to contact and the system takes care of the rest. You'll also receive significantly more frequency changes (bringing it closer to a real world experience and level of workload) enroute as a result of this mode of operation.

 

One of the places that becomes significant is during your approach briefing. In the real world, it's standard to set up the tower frequency in standby so it can be easily selected when the handoff is made from the approach controller.  We constantly see people who come from other online networks who are not expecting to be handed off to tower and don't have the frequency ready to go. Their workload becomes a little bit higher as a result.

 

The two networks can't really be directly compared. It really comes down to your requirements, at which point the choice becomes a lot simpler (either way).

 

I do believe, though, that whichever network you choose, flying online is simply a lot more interesting than flying offline.

 

 

Hello Keith,

You mentioned it, but did not elaborate. What is the policy for PilotEdge on new and inexperienced users coming into the program?

I am thinking on starting out with PilotEdge, simply because I feel I will learn while not picking up bad habits, like what you said about the pre-setting of frequencies.

On the other hand, I expect I will be stumbling a la..la..lot, and don't really want to be booted off with the badge of shame pinned to my chest, or worse yet, have to meet with an FAA official upon landing, like RC4 always tells me to do. 

Thank you for the offer -- the crash sometimes happens when I'm trying to load FSINN, I get either a blank screen or a freeze.

 

I have tried reinstalling, but the issue still pops up in densely area FSX regions, like KSEA. Next time it crashes I will try and find the error code.

 

Short tutorial.

 

Remove FSINN and FSCopilot from your PC, then delete the FSDT folder from C:\Program Files (x86) (if you are on 64bit)

then in the search box in the start button type regedit and run the registry editor. Do a search for the FSDT folder and

delete it. Don't delete anything else. Reboot.

 

Install FSCopilot SetupFSCopilot17B2_4.exe and SetupFSInn13B2_3.exe in that order ensuring that you reboot after each install.

 

Next thing is to make exceptions in your firewall for the following files which are in the FSDT folder subfolders:

 

FSFDTCP.exe

FSFDTCPLite.exe

FSInnUI.exe

FSInnUIVVL.exe

FWINN.exe

FWINN64.exe

 

Create a Router firewall rule to open  port 32062 UDP

 

This now being the first run of FSINN start the Control Panel and you'll see a traffic light type icon appearing on the on the bottom right taskbar.

 

Right click and select "ensure visible" - A window will pop-up.

 

Under Config :-

Fscopilot with bullet in Autodetect

FWInn Autodetect bullet autodetect - Options 1 & 2 leave as they are.

Options - tick Voice Tuning Sound Warning - nothing else

 

Under Voice :-

Teamspeak and Roger Wilco without ticks

Vatsim tick enable Vatsim voice on this computer. Also while on this select your mike, headset, and external speakers (if any)

Volumes leave as they are except for a tick in realistic distortion.

Key Mappings - Leave until connected - see later below.

Key Management - Leave as is. Close down the window but don't kill the Control Manager.

 

 

 

Start FSX and place yourself at an airport but not on a runway. In window mode.

 

Select the Add-ons pull down menu and then open FSCopilot/Inn Control Panel - At this point FSInn will check all the aircraft

that you have installed in your FSX aircraft foldder. When done the FSInn Control panel will appear.

 

Select SET and you will see 3 Sections - General, Network and Aircraft.

 

General:-

 

Basic this is where you enter the callsign you are going to use in Vatsim, your name and your registered airport (something you

choose when creating your VATSIM account, if you didn't then  just put the ICAO Code of your favourite Airport. Selcal - leave for now.

General - ticks in every box

Charset - ignore

Multiplayer - Select range 10 miles (FSX won't display aircraft at more than 10 miles)

Multiplayer Max Plane - determines how many aircraft it will display - Too high can cause FPS loss.

Various - On left column top to bottom - 3 ticks 2 unticks remaining all ticked. On right column 2 unticked 1 ticked 3 unticked,

1 ticked 2 unticked 1 ticked.

Sound - You can have all ticked

VA Voice - ignore

Flight - select IFR or VFR

Weather - Disable Weather by default ticked if you are using a 3rd party weather program, if not leave unticked.

 

 

Network:-

 

Vatsim - Enter ID and password details, press load servers wait a few seconds and pulling arrow select from list the closest

server to your location. Leave the rest of this section as is.

Ignore remaining items except for Peer to Peer.

 

P2P - Select you Internet connection speed and tick disable automatic P2P establishing, etc.

UPnP - If your router supports UPnP you should see a message telling you UPnP found, if not it doesn't matter.

Forwarding -Here you can enter the port number mentioned earlier in this post - This is not required but you can do so if you wish.

Default - ignore.

 

Aircraft:-

General defaults - Shows you which aircraft FSInn will choose to display if it cannot match the livery of other online user aircraft.

You can change this if you wish.

Aircraft repository - ignore. Close the SET window.

 

You are now ready to press VATSIM and connect to the network. Press the button and you are on the network.

 

Now go into full screen mode and the CP should be visible inside FSX - If you find this CP too big, pressing mCP will reduce the CP to a much smaller size but still fully

functional. Pressing CP again will take you back to the large version.

 

If you still have display issues they could be related to Graphic drivers. Also make sure you have the latest Visual Basic 6 installed.

 

For SELCA see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SELCAL

 

Hope this is of help to you and any other trying to start life in Vatsim.

 

Regards

Hello Keith,

You mentioned it, but did not elaborate. What is the policy for PilotEdge on new and inexperienced users coming into the program?

I am thinking on starting out with PilotEdge, simply because I feel I will learn while not picking up bad habits, like what you said about the pre-setting of frequencies.

On the other hand, I expect I will be stumbling a la..la..lot, and don't really want to be booted off with the badge of shame pinned to my chest, or worse yet, have to meet with an FAA official upon landing, like RC4 always tells me to do.

 

If you're making reasonable mistakes, the controller should professionally and objectively point out the mistake and move on. If you make a long string of mistakes which point to evidence of you not having done a shred of research to prepare for the flight, then their patience will soon dry up and you'll start hearing it in their voice.

 

There is a standard for flying on PE, and it's slightly below (but not by much) the level of a real world student pilot. If you clip some airspace, bust an altitude, or have trouble tracking an airway, we'll point it out and move on. If you do all 3, and then takeoff or land without a clearance, have no idea what frequency to call, have no idea what to say on the radio, etc...then the wheels start coming off.

 

We have a pilot training program (similar to the ZLA Pilot Cert program, I'm the author of both) which can help a great deal (and has helped hundreds of people, in fact) with learning the ropes. Between that, and the workshops (http://pilotedge.net/workshops), you have all the information you need to have a successful first flight, as well as the First Flight scenario, of course: http://www.pilotedge.net/pages/first-flight

 

Do the research, read the material, watch the videos, then enjoy the flights. Much of knowing what to say is predicated upon an understanding of how the airspace works (who owns what, and when you need to be talking to someone). That first workshop will help, and then the ones that follow give plenty of scenario-based examples of VFR flights, too.

 

The knowledge can be equally useful for VATSIM or PilotEdge and the workshops are available to the public at no charge (along with the time-compressed ATC recordings on the site, http://pilotedge.net/audio).

 

If you're making reasonable mistakes, the controller should professional and objectively point out the mistake and move on. If you make a long string of mistakes which point to evidence of you not having done a shred of research to prepare for the flight, then their patience will soon dry up and you'll start hearing it in their voice.

 

There is a standard for flying on PE, and it's slightly below (but not by much) the level of a real world student pilot. If you clip some airspace, bust an altitude, or have trouble tracking an airway, we'll point it out and move on. If you do all 3, and then takeoff or land without a clearance, have no idea what frequency to call, have no idea what to say on the radio, etc...then the wheels start coming off.

 

We have a pilot training program (similar to the ZLA Pilot Cert program, I'm the author of both) which can help a great deal (and has helped hundreds of people, in fact) with learning the ropes. Between that, and the workshops (http://pilotedge.net/workshops), you have all the information you need to have a successful first flight, as well as the First Flight scenario, of course: http://www.pilotedge.net/pages/first-flight

 

Do the research, read the material, watch the videos, then enjoy the flights. Much of knowing what to say is predicated upon an understanding of how the airspace works (who owns what, and when you need to be talking to someone). That first workshop will help, and then the ones that follow give plenty of scenario-based examples of VFR flights, too.

 

The knowledge can be equally useful for VATSIM or PilotEdge and the workshops are available to the public at no charge (along with the time-compressed ATC recordings on the site, http://pilotedge.net/audio).

This is some great information!  I'll sure be looking into it.  I didn't realize that you had so much information available to anyone wanting to learn it.

Just how good one has to be, is kind of my concern.  I probably know the real basics as good as the below average simmer, but when looking at videos on your website, that instructor is pointing out little nuances on the STAR chart that I still would not recognize unless going over your courses.  

Since it would take me several months to go over all the learning information on your website, would you prefer that I do not join until I feel that I understand everything good and won't make many dumb mistakes?

Robert,

 

I appreciate the caution and respect that you are showing, but I feel like people are needlessly fearful of trying online flying (including PilotEdge). The best way to set yourself up for success is to fly an airplane that you know very well in relatively simply airspace on a relatively simple flight.

 

Alternatively, you can follow the roadmap that we've laid out with the training program (again, on either network):

V-1: 3 laps of the pattern

V-2: flight following between two airports

V-3: using published transitions of the LAX Bravo airspace (even easier than a random, controller-assigned transition, because the terms of the transition are known and published ahead of time. Just fly the radial and altitude!)

 

I-1: depart KSNA and fly the ILS 19R with vectors to final (the IFR equivalent of pattern work)

I-2: short IFR trip, ending in vectors for ILS 24 at KCRQ

I-3: introduction to preferred routes, slightly more complex airways, ILS RWY 8 into BUR

I-4: controller chooses where you go, ensuring you're able to look up the pref route

I-5: SID/STAR into

I-6: full approach ILS 19R at KSNA with SID out of LAX

I-7: full non-precision approach at KAVX, introduction to non-towered ops

I-8: vectors to final for non-precision approach (LOC RWY 27) at KSAN

I-9: SID/STAR from LAS to LAX (this is going to be rewritten, actually)

I-10 & I-11: more advanced ratings, don't worry about it yet.

 

The good news is you do NOT have to know it all on Day 1! You can arrive knowing very little. The transcripts (text versions of sample pilot/ATC transcripts) give you a great idea of what to say, and you can practice pattern work offline until you're ready to do it with the extra pressure of working with ATC (don't worry, the more you talk with ATC, the less pressure you'll eventually feel. Ultimately, it will become second nature, with zero, and I mean zero butterflies).

 

The key, though is to have a reasonable attitude about it. If you make a mistake, don't try to hide it. Don't try to bluff. If you don't know what the controller is asking, just say, "I'm sorry, I don't know what that means, can you help me out?" and you'll get a positive response 99% of the time. It's when pilots become defensive and adversarial that it gets ugly and the controllers get frustrated. That, or if there is blatant lack of respect for the process and spirit of the network. If you've done at least SOME of your homework, though (ie, read the transcripts, watch the 5 min intro video, read the reference material...maybe 30 mins prep at most), you should be in great shape.

 

What's great about the program is that it gives you a structured intro to the airspace, gradually introducing more complex exercises. If you simply waltz onto the network and pick a random flight, it may be far more complex than you might think, especially when the cleared route not what you filed. But, if you follow the program, you're going to get what the rating says you'll get (in terms of routing), and it will be very predictable....precisely what you need as a confidence booster to get started.

 

My advice would be to pick a piston airplane, get good at doing patterns with it (patterns that keep you within about 1 mile of the field, and within +/- 200ft of pattern altitude), then study the communication transcripts for that flight to have an idea of what to expect, and then give it a whirl!

 

Any questions at all, feel free to post here, or in a fresh thread (up to you). If you do start a fresh thread, PM me to let me know in case I miss it.

 

In short if you don't bite off WAY more than you can chew, then I firmly believe just about anyone can fly online and have an amazing experience. If you charge into it not willing to research anything at all in advance and pick the most complex flights in the most complex airspace...it'll end in tears, most likely when you turn right on the LOOP6 SID out of LAX because your FMS "made" you turn that way