FSX-SE New Flight Simulator

[WarpD 824]

Abd without getting letter from  Microsoft's  and Lockheed Martin's lawyers.

That won't happen. OpenOffice... as example. Being compatible isn't anything they can stop.

[HansRoaming 73]

That won't happen. OpenOffice... as example. Being compatible isn't anything they can stop.

The precedent was established way back in the IBM BIOS cloning days and probably way back even further in the IBM Mainframe clone days.

 

SCO vs Linux also proved that even having similar header files for compatibility couldn't be used as a case for copyright theft.

[Guest Id Rather Be Flying]

 

Abd without getting letter from  Microsoft's  and Lockheed Martin's lawyers.

 

To address this, NOTHING will be developed or released that doesn't have the legal right to produce as well as the proper necessary legal paperwork from aforementioned said parties ensuring no infringements.

[HansRoaming 73]

Would say contact the FSF for reassurance but for the precedent this is a quote about Compaq.

 

"Compaq's efforts were possible because IBM had used mostly off-the-shelf parts for their PC, and because Microsoft had kept the right to license MS-DOS to other computer manufacturers. The only part which had to be copied was the BIOS, which Compaq did legally by reverse engineering throughclean room design at a cost of $1 million."

 

If making something API compatible was an issue, Linux wouldn't exist.

[mgh 89]

But would these four part-time developers be willing or able to take on Microsoft ot Lockheed Martin?

 

EDIT

 

Microsoft has published the file formats for Office (amongst others) and said it will not assert any claims against anyone using them

 

http://www.microsoft.com/openspecifications/en/us/programs/osp/default.aspx

 

As far as I am aware it hasn't said the same about FSX file formats,

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

But then many of the FSX add-on developers would be at risk legally also. How many BGL files are sold every day by 3rd parties? (That's a rhetorical question, BTW).

 

I think that the bigger risk would be that MS would assert that the  "new FSX" developers would have to provide them with their source code, in order to demonstrate that the new product wasn't reverse engineered from FSX. Sometimes just a letter from MS's legal department is all that it takes to kill a 3rd party effort. I'm not a big fan of MS, but in this case, I wouldn't blame them.

[mgh 89]

How many BGL files are sold every day by 3rd parties?

 

 

Microsoft provided SDKs explain how to create .bgls .cfg and .mdl  files so there's no problem in creating those.

 

The potential problem is in using those formats for a non-Microsoft application.

[HughesMDflyer4 470]

Keep in mind that ModelConverterX can read MDL files and display them almost exactly as they would be in FSX at this point. A flight simulator that can read the MDL format would only be reading information to display a model made by someone else. Microsoft does not own what the MDL file creates, only the format itself. As long as no default MDLs are included in the release, I don't see a real problem with it.

[mgh 89]

The potential problem is surely  in using the .mdl file format (assumed to be proprietary to Microsoft) in a 3rd party application without  Microsoft's permission

[WarpD 824]

A data file format is rarely protected by any copyright. Contents, possibly... format, almost never.

 

This was a non-issue long before this discussion started.

[HansRoaming 73]

A data file format is rarely protected by any copyright. Contents, possibly... format, almost never.

 

This was a non-issue long before this discussion started.

Although it can be shown to be a non problem by saving something in another programs file format it does add drama to a thread.

 

Examples that also show this to be a non issue

• IBM giving the software away with its mainframes, Amdahl took them to court and won so that people could by IBM software and it would run on their hardware.
• Compaq, reverse engineering the IBM PC BIOS to be able to make clones (this went to court iirc)
• Linux, BSD etc
• Open Office
• Any program that can read / write another programs native format even though they might be competing products i.e. word processors as far back as the 80s
• Even when SCO went after Linux they did so on a copyright infringement basis and ended up taking header files to court, they lost

The only issues would be around copyright infringement i.e. they took all the default airplanes and scenery and shipped their product with it without permission and patent infringement in which case X-Plane and every other non MS flight sim would have been taken to court. Fortunately their is prior art with regards desktop flight simulation, so not gonna happen.

 

Laminar Research is being taken to court by a patent troll because they use a Google API in their Android apps and the troll claims a patent on what the API does.

[mgh 89]

File formats can be protected an have been in the USA since In re Lowry in 1994.For examples, royalties have to be paid for the coders, codec, and games that use the mp3 format.

 

However, this matter could easily be cleared up if the FSNext developers can state that Microsoft has confirmed it has no objection.

[JSkorna 137]

I see the want to be lawyers are out in full force.

[TheGrunt 44]

I see the want to be lawyers are out in full force.

Maybe FSNext coders should reconsidet their subject and change it to Lawyer Simulator. Man, that would awesome in 64-bits and DX11. You could pretty much put all the worlds law books in the memory with detail never seen before. And think of all the 3PD photorealistic court rooms and judge wigs with 4096x4096 textures.

 

There would be huge market for that sort of sim :Party:

[HansRoaming 73]

File formats can be protected an have been in the USA since In re Lowry in 1994.For examples, royalties have to be paid for the coders, codec, and games that use the mp3 format.

 

However, this matter could easily be cleared up if the FSNext developers can state that Microsoft has confirmed it has no objection.

Both examples you quote are related to patent law I.e. for MP3 have a look at http://www.mp3-tech.org/patents.html, so the answer is see if there are any patents which have not expired around MS Flight Simulator or don't release in the USA with its insane software patents.

 

For the guys doing the software don't listen to us, go check with the Electronic Frontier Foundation and get a real legal opinion.